Poor battery life on the v-control touch

Hi All,

Is anyone else experiencing poor battery life with the V-control touch? I flew mine yesterday from fully charged, had 3 flights and its down to 65%. Its like having the old v-control with a single battery fitted. This is really annoying!


Is there plans for a bigger battery upgrade?

Cheers

Matt

Mine is the very same, I guess its the new "Touch" screen taking the power but also would like to see an option for a slightly bigger battery.

I have my screen brightness turned down to 20% trying to eliminate the usage going so fast.

Just a check - are there 2 batteries inside and both plugged in?

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

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Two in mine and both plugged in.

Could you please check if both are internally used?

Please plug off one, then turn on VBC, plug in again, plug off the other, try ;-)

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

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RV Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Could you please check if both are internally
> used?
>
> Please plug off one, then turn on VBC, plug in
> again, plug off the other, try ;-)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Glad you asked that question because although it works on each single battery, before I took the back off the case my VControl was fully charged (well 97%) which it stops at.

I unplugged the first battery and although the radio powered up the battery level went straight down to 64%

I then tried the second battery on its own and again only 64% showing on the front screen

Most bizarre thing has then happened I plugged both batteries back in and still only 64% with both batteries plugged in.

Very strange it wants charging again and I have only switched it on twice to do this test.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/12/2018 08:35PM by busterboy.

Hi Tim, Matt,

can you please do a simple test? Set the min brightness to say 20 %, charge the radio completely, then let it sit with the screen on for a couple of hours, indoors where it's not too bright so the display does not brighten, no auto off?
Maybe set a timer and check and copy the percentage approx. every hour.

I'm curious because our radios (with exactly the same battery configuration) easily lasted a day at Rotor Live (bright spots at the booth) as well as at IRCHA. What would really matter would be the real runtime, not linearity of the percentage, which takes the voltage as a basis, and you know the particularity of LiPos, 4.2 V ... 3.8-3.7 V with a curve with a rather steep incline, then almost the whole battery cycle at 3.8-3.7 V average, then again a voltage drop.

I mean, if you take the Touch from the charger right when the LED turns off, you will most probably see 99-100 % with the minimum brightness dialed in low, indoors, or 95 % or slightly lower with the display at full brightness, drawing current. You can change the reading by changing the display brightness. Then the percentage will settle eventually and you should have 6-8 hours average if the display is not at full brightness all the time (hence: average).

Kind regards

Eddi

Born to fly ...
forced to work.

Well sadly things have gone from bad to worse since yesterday.

Since doing the test you suggested Eddi I've had my V-Control Touch on charge for 5 hours now and it won't charge above 68% to carry on with your suggestion. Red charging light flickers on then off most of the time but I'm stumpted now.

Any ideas.??

PS: Radio is working fine in all areas apart from charging and it percentage on the main screen.

EDIT:

Just tried a brand new charger and its now charging with solid red light on all the time.

Looks like the charger has failed by the look of it.

Since my last post 15 minutes ago its up at 80% now.

New charger needed.!!

Hi Tim,

this is really strange. Can we somehow rule out it's the charger? If you connect it to USB and let it sit for an hour or two (charges way slower than the wall charger), does the percentage increase? What about the LED?

Kind regards

Eddi

Born to fly ...
forced to work.

Hi Tim,

OK, you just confirmed what I was thinking, while I was writing

Kind regards

Eddi

Born to fly ...
forced to work.

Ok a little test done as requested but obviously the radio is stood idle doing nothing.

Screen brightness set to 20% and radio stood idle never turned off for this test.

3.45pm = 97%
4.45pm = 86%
5.45pm = 79%
6.45pm = 68%

It looks pretty much what you might expect when stood idle but what other things drain the battery when in flight mode situation to make it discharge at a greater rate which is why this post was started.?

Hi Tim,

first, it looks all well. Nothing to worry about.

If the world was linear, you would have like 10 hours of time to watch the stunning display in that configuration, an average of 10 % battery drain per hour

In flight, there is no difference but the fact that the ambient light sensor increases the brightness, in the open, in the sun, and the display is the largest consumer.

I would guess 4-5 hours of battery lifetime at full brightness would be possible, and the average is 6-8 hours without ever switching the radio off, during a day.

You might think about dimming the display if not in use for some time, like smartphones do, before they go into standby.
Or you might think about dimming the display if you engage screen lock.
But on the other hand, you might want to check your display with a quick glance, so it should be perfectly readable.
You could make all that adjustable, adding complexity.
Or you might just live with it

I dare say we still have the longest battery runtime in the industry, for the given hardware, and please mind that you can safely fly until the radio starts complaining, and that you then still have like 3/4 to 1 hour battery lifetime left.

Then, you could MacGyver a charging wire, cigarette lighter connector to one end, plug for VBar Control at the other end, and quick-charge it in your car e.g. during a lunch break ... wouldn't even have to have an A/C power supply for the wall charger, or wait for the slow charging via USB.

Kind regards

Eddi

Born to fly ...
forced to work.

Hi Guys,

I’ve just read the contents of the thread I started, sorry I’ve been busy with work.

I take on board your comments about the battery life but sadly we have all been used to using the ‘old v-control’ with two batteries which was far more convenient then the ‘touch’ with respect to battery life.

Does Mikado intend to seek a modification to this unit to improve the battery life? Maybe a larger battery?

I genuinely think it’s an issue which will hamper the product. Just my opinion but it’s a pain having to every time when going flying, charge your TX. I haven’t had to do this since the 35mHz days.

One step backwards, one step forwards maybe?

Hi Matt,

is it a more theoretical observation or do you really notice a disadvantage in your day-to-day use? And I do not mean a felt or sensed disadvantage because the numbers are lower, maybe even to start with if you go out on the field and come back, I mean like you can not fly relaxed for a whole day or two?
Of course, if the radio's new and you fiddle with it hours and hours, it will consume energy. But if you come back to normal, 'just use it', my experience is that it's not really worse than with the classic VBar Control.

Same with new toys like phones or tablets, you unpack, toy with it, and you are shocked how short battery life is. Once you are back to normal use, runtimes are up again – and it was the same with the previous phone and the one before ...

I remember my good old Nokia phone where I did only charge once a week, but I wouldn't want it back but for nostalgic reasons, my current phone (actually, pocket computer ) lasts a good day in normal use and 2-3 days if I'm on holiday and have it in standby most of the time, and I am so used to putting it to the charger, on the bed stand, every night, I do not feel a real disadvantage ...

Anyway, there will be options in the future I guess.

But take it as it is: there is a large, bright color display in the Touch compared to a smaller, also bright monochrome display in the classic VBar Control, and for a bigger motor (comparison flawed ...) you need more fuel and we have already doubled the capacity.

If you did already double the capacity on the classic VBar Control, there is of course not much you can do at the moment, to quadruple the capacity in the Touch.

Cheers

Eddi

Born to fly ...
forced to work.

Hi Guys

sorry to jump on this thread but can anyone confirm if it's normal for the Vcontrol touch to only charge to 96% percent?

pcollins Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Guys
>
> sorry to jump on this thread but can anyone
> confirm if it's normal for the Vcontrol touch to
> only charge to 96% percent?

____________________________________________

Have a read.

https://www.vstabi.info/forum/read.php?58,168396

Hi again,

brief answer: yes, if it's not totally fresh from the charger and/or if the biggest consumer is drawing high currents already (high display brightness), somewhat pulling down the voltage which is considered 'full' (like 4.2 v/cell).

Kind regards

Eddi

Born to fly ...
forced to work.

Is it possible to display VBCT battery voltage instead of just battery percentage?

A battery Voltage depends on the developers view what he means with "full". So it isn't useful knowing the definitions. A battery voltage will also drop down under load always - so also difficult here.

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
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Sorry, I do not mean the helicopter battery. I mean the VBar Control Touch radio LiPo battery (inside the radio). I expect this transmitter battery is not exposed major fluctuations in load. Would it be possible for the radio to display the voltage of this LiPo along with the percentage?

What i want to tell you ... how much Volts is full and how much empty?

Without knowing this here it won't be useful.

E.g. in your models the battery has a aggressive chemistry and full is 4.2 Volts, Empty approx. 3.4V w/o load. In a electric vehicle (like a e-Golf from VW) full almost means 4.0V and empty 3.6V w/o load (will get 10.000 times more cycles than the helicopter) and has a less aggressive chemistry (C-Rates).

What is your exact intension?

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

Für Posts und Antworten bitte einen PC und eine richtige Taststaur benutzen sowie alle Fragen vollständig abarbeiten. Nehmt Euch Zeit, beantwortet Rückfragen in Ruhe und vollständig.
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Hi John,

technically it's possible, but what does it really tell you?

In reality, we rely on the voltage.

Example: you charge the radio to full.
You switch on.
Battery is supposed to have 4.2 V at 100 %.
But you never see 100 % (annoying, isn't it, if the radio doesn't feign 100 %)?
In reality, the display is drawing a current (unit's largest consumer, by the way), pulling down the voltage.
So you see like 96-97 % max at low brightness, in a dark room, or 90some % at full brightness, and instantly if you change it, without hardly any mA consumed.

If you see/or only see the voltage, it doesn't tell you much. Together with the percentage, it's redundant

Cheers

Eddi

Born to fly ...
forced to work.

I assume the VBC Touch radio directly measures the LiPo voltage and then calculates the % capacity off this directly measured LiPo voltage and the radio ultimately displays the % capacity instead of the LiPo voltage. If this is the case, what is the harm in offering the pilot the option to display either or both the LiPo voltage and/or LiPo capacity %?

Hi,

you assume correctly, although I don't know the exact method.

Problem is, to calculate a percentage, you have to take the discharge curve into account, which, on a LiPo, is steep in the beginning (4.2 V down to 3.9, 3.8 V), then, for a very long time, it's quite stable (flat, 3.8...3.7...3.6 V...), until, in the end, it will drop steeply again.
I did't try, but I guess for 6 hours out of 8 hours uptime, you wouldn't see much of a change in voltage. How to tell (if you don't know how long the radio's been running since the last full charge) if you are at hour 2 or at hour 5?

So it's not linear, it depends on the load (mainly display dim or bright), and there are other influences (like temperature, to a certain degree).

The voltage is no secret, it's a 1s LiPo after all, but does it make sense?
The voltage does not easily tell you the SoC, most of the time it's just a voltage. I have a T8FG here, with a LiPo in it, and from the voltage I could not really tell you how long I could still use it.

A couple of honest questions:
. did the radio ever fail on you, battery-wise, so you had to quit a flying day early?
. what type of user are you, do you panic at below 50 %, or can you be a ease until the radio starts warning at 15 %?

I, for myself, 'just use' use my electronics (phone, watch, radio, car (!), whatever) and charge when needed (car, radio) or on a regular basis (phone, watch, each night, sometimes not even that often). Needed means if I have a day ahead where I need as much juice as possible, or if it's dead empty, to save the battery).

Sure thing I check the SoC on all, regularly, so I don't run out of juice, and to see if there are significant changes, which might indicate a worn or bad battery (or is just caused by extensive use ...).

Cheers

Eddi

Born to fly ...
forced to work.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/2020 03:37PM by Eddi E. aus G..

The VBC Touch has never failed me. I have not seen the capacity % display drop below 35%.

But that is not the issue I am discussing. I welcome the time you must have spent developing your "secret sauce" capacity % calculations based on the directly measured voltage. That LiPo capacity % is nice and easy to read on the display. However, I would also like to have the option of LiPo voltage displayed. I don't see the harm of having this additional information. It is the whole "trust but verify" thing. Trust the capacity %, but verify with the voltage.

Hi again,

as being said, it's no secret, so it's 'just' about implementing it I guess, e.g. as an option for the screen design.

At 35 % I once went to an event where I knew I had between 2 and 4 flights 'to do' plus showcasing
I worked ... came home with > 15 %

Cheers

Eddi

Born to fly ...
forced to work.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/2020 05:05PM by Eddi E. aus G..

I am very glad I am part of the Mikado VBC Touch radio and Neo VLink ecosystem. I just feel there is so much untapped potential.

Me, too and I know things to come ^^ but I may not yet tell :-/

Born to fly ...
forced to work.

Stop teasing me.