OK I think I accomplished this earlier today on the field. But still did not cure the issue. We get good constant head speed so this is not the cause. When ever we disable the sensor the wag decreases and becomes less prominent. However when the extra sensor is enabled the wag becomes more pronounced and prominent. Does this give any clues???

Surely this should not be so difficult to set up. My Freya hovers beautifully with the NEO but this tail wag is really pushed me into the corner of what to do next. Myself and my instructor are mossed what to do next.

Ahhh - you have a NEO with external sensor?

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

Für Posts und Antworten bitte einen PC und eine richtige Taststaur benutzen sowie alle Fragen vollständig abarbeiten. Nehmt Euch Zeit, beantwortet Rückfragen in Ruhe und vollständig.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Für Einzelkommunikation bitte ausschließlich Email verwenden! - PN, Messenger, Chat usw. werden nicht bearbeitet.
For single user communication please send a email only! PM, Messenger, Chat etc. won't be read.

Yes I do and whenever I turn it off the problem improves

lucasuk86 schrieb:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OK I think I accomplished this earlier today on
> the field. But still did not cure the issue. We
> get good constant head speed so this is not the
> cause. When ever we disable the sensor the wag
> decreases and becomes less prominent. However when
> the extra sensor is enabled the wag becomes more
> pronounced and prominent. Does this give any
> clues???
>
> Surely this should not be so difficult to set up.
> My Freya hovers beautifully with the NEO but this
> tail wag is really pushed me into the corner of
> what to do next. Myself and my instructor are
> lossed what to do next.

I use Mikado sensor http://shop.mikado-heli.de/VBar-Electronics/VBar-NEO/VBar-NEO-Accessories/Gyroscope-VBar.htm?shop=k_mikado_e&SessionId=&a=article&ProdNr=04606&t=7568&c=8037&p=8037

Yep - i never use the external sensor because the internal one is more precise.

Is there a reason for using it?

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

Für Posts und Antworten bitte einen PC und eine richtige Taststaur benutzen sowie alle Fragen vollständig abarbeiten. Nehmt Euch Zeit, beantwortet Rückfragen in Ruhe und vollständig.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Für Einzelkommunikation bitte ausschließlich Email verwenden! - PN, Messenger, Chat usw. werden nicht bearbeitet.
For single user communication please send a email only! PM, Messenger, Chat etc. won't be read.

Because Mikado say if you use nitro the we should use the extra sensor??

Any ideas on the tail wag of what to do?

Nope - we say - it can be helpful in a high vibrating environment.
Thinking about some horrible shakers out there ... it might be needed in some cases.
I personally do not use it - on the nitro and on the gasser.

I would fly w/o external sensor if the heli won't have drift effects ;-)

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

Für Posts und Antworten bitte einen PC und eine richtige Taststaur benutzen sowie alle Fragen vollständig abarbeiten. Nehmt Euch Zeit, beantwortet Rückfragen in Ruhe und vollständig.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Für Einzelkommunikation bitte ausschließlich Email verwenden! - PN, Messenger, Chat usw. werden nicht bearbeitet.
For single user communication please send a email only! PM, Messenger, Chat etc. won't be read.

So I assume you don't know what to do with the tail wag I'm experiencing?

Hi,

a tail wag is usually caused by the mechanics, slop or binding, causing or helping with a breakaway torque, which in turn causes the wag, suspects are the pushrod, bell crank, tail pitch slider, thrust bearings, or possibly the servo.
Because of the different sensitivity and/or operating range, it will possibly show a little differently with different sensors or flybarless systems.
But unless it changes significantly when changing parameters (overall gain, or more P less I), you can't fight it with the electronics.
Sometimes, increasing the head speed or changing the tail blades makes a significant difference, because it's more likely to occur at low head/tail rotor speeds or with the tail having less authority.

But vibration would cause a drift, either on the tail or on the swash plate, usually at certain head speeds where the resonance is worst.

If you can do a cross check, with different sensors (which you did, external and internal), and the wag persists, it's most probably mechanics or the servo.

Kind regards

Eddi

Born to fly ...
forced to work.

Hello thanks for your response,

At the field all day today. Tried a different servo. No change. rebuilt the tail. It is as smooth as butter.

Strange thing is if I set the common gain to 115 and then 40, there is hardly any difference.... I would of thought dramatically increasing the common gain to 115 would at least make the problem worse and give hard wag, but no.... Makes no sense.

Any thoughts?

If changing the gain has no effect - it is mechanical friction between servo and blade ...

Did you try to add a little D? - Possibly 15%?
Is the inernal or external senso used?

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

Für Posts und Antworten bitte einen PC und eine richtige Taststaur benutzen sowie alle Fragen vollständig abarbeiten. Nehmt Euch Zeit, beantwortet Rückfragen in Ruhe und vollständig.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Für Einzelkommunikation bitte ausschließlich Email verwenden! - PN, Messenger, Chat usw. werden nicht bearbeitet.
For single user communication please send a email only! PM, Messenger, Chat etc. won't be read.

My tail is very smooth. Why does it have to be so loose to work correctly? You can run a stiff tail on a fly bar heli with a gyro no problem.

What is D?
Internal sensor is used.

Usually it has nothing to do with the Gyro. This type of wag will appear on all gyros more or less the same.
The effect is called limit cycle. The Servo is not able to reach the neutral spot. this may be due to friction, or sometimes a "notch" effect i.e. from the thrust bearings. So in 90% it is thrust bearings (reversed, binding, worn out). 10% is because of Blades that are not neutral at the sweet spot.
You will not feel much of the friction if the motor is switched off or blades are not mounted. This appears only during run, if the full forces are active at the tail. So the linkage is not the most important part, but the bearings that may not run smooth under full load.

so long ... Uli
http://www.vstabi.de

Thanks for your reply. Can you confirm wht servo profile I should be using for tail using JR NXB89G?

Hi,

should work well with the Savox setting:

Quote:

JR Propo
· Control Frequency : 1 kHz 《XBus 1 kHz／PWM 333Hz》
· Neutral : 1500μSec.

Kind regards

Eddi

Born to fly ...
forced to work.



1 mal bearbeitet. Zuletzt am 16.12.2016 08:53 von Eddi E. aus G..

So after finding some spare time today I took my Hirobo Freya out today. Tried 15% D and no change.

Really thinking about going with another manufacture and swallow my losses as I have tried so much to solve this issue here in the UK.

- Rebuilt tail so it runs like butter plus checked bearings
- Used different tail servo
- Experimented with different software settings
- Changed tail blades
- Experimented with different head speeds
- Disabling external sensor

People at the flying field are dumbstruck is to why this tail wiggle persist.

Is there anything else that anyone could recommend? Again here is the video Tail Wag

Is there some kind of "flexibility" in the tail linkage?

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

Für Posts und Antworten bitte einen PC und eine richtige Taststaur benutzen sowie alle Fragen vollständig abarbeiten. Nehmt Euch Zeit, beantwortet Rückfragen in Ruhe und vollständig.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Für Einzelkommunikation bitte ausschließlich Email verwenden! - PN, Messenger, Chat usw. werden nicht bearbeitet.
For single user communication please send a email only! PM, Messenger, Chat etc. won't be read.

No their is not