NEO going into failsafe

I have a T-Rex 600N that has been flying fine for over a year with a NEO and external vlink rx. Before that I had a silverline with the external vlink rx.

Over the last couple of weeks the model has been going into failsafe. I only just looked at the logs today to see the problem is packets lost first then failsafe second.

My first flight today was without any error then later the fault showed up.

Could the fault be in the vlink rx? What else should I be looking for please?

Please do a range check and post some screenshots from this test - and also some photos of the NEO/Sat mounting.

http://vstabi.info/en/node/1692

Keep in mind that a cable in between (connector) could be a reason too, so try on the bench while wiggling at the plugs etc.

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

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Thank you, I will head to the field Monday to carry out testing. At that time I will have another model to eliminate transmitter and another vlink rx.

For now images of installation. The free signal wire is from the battery that goes to the aux 2 socket with vlink signal. There is a second power input to ch4 next door.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/2017 10:59AM by Andy from Sandy.

Oh - A nitro! - Yeah!

- Is the canopy a glass or carbon one?
- please check every connection / crimp at the cable between Sat and NEO
- which kind of power supply / BEC and servos does it have (check with pitch pump on the bench)?

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2017 07:54AM by RV.

The canopy is glassfibre.
I have given all of the wires a good wiggle.
I am using a LiFe pack for power. I am using Futaba BLS272 and BLS 276. The throttle is Futaba S3072.

I walked much further than you asked for range check. I had the model facing away and the transmitter was facing away with me in between. Screenshots attached. I did the same with my 470. I would say certainly for the 470 I walked as far as you would normally fly it. I checked the antenna status from all sides but as it didn't change I didn't do any more screenshots.

After the range check I have changed out the vlink and did another range check with similar results.

I made 12 flights in total, 7 on the 600. No packets lost and no failsafe on either model.

A couple of log files as well.

I tapped the sat and the NEO with a screwdriver but it didn't show anything. I will leave things as they are for a couple of weeks and see how it goes.

Thank you for diagnosis checks. I will double check the cable and maybe get a new one. I made the one I am using by modifying the standard lead used for silverline.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2017 06:32PM by Andy from Sandy.

Ok - i didn't find a hint in the logs and screenshots. So i would change the cable for safety. I would do a bench pitch pump test with 50 Pitch Pump too. Just to be safe.

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

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Okay, thank you.

I had 11 flights today of 7 1/2 minute duration. No lost packets, no failsafe.

I did perform pitch pumps and the voltage never dropped below 6 volts as displayed on the VBC.

I will not try the old parts but a combination of changing the cable and the v-link sat seems to have been the cure.

Thanks for your help.

Is it worth me sending the v-link sat in to be checked?

Hmm - worth or not - depending on shipment cost i think.

If you would like to check it - just log in and navigate to www.vstabi.info/rma to start.

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

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Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

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Have posted 2 times about rc packet lost with the neo? they disappear from the vcontrol forum?
\

why?

Can't see either a reason nor a post.

Please start a new topic - keep in mind, one pilot, one heli, one thread.

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

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After 151 flights I have had another incident of packets lost and failsafe.

I wasn't quite so lucky this time and broke the blades and lost a couple of links.

The vlink satellite and cable were new then and have not been disturbed. I can only assume the satellite has failed momentarily in some way as seen in the logs.

Wondering what to do next.

I do have a NEO with vlink I can install to keep the model flying.

I am unsure of purchasing another vlink satellite if this is a recurring problem.

Hello Robert,

having a external sat we always have a cabel connection in between (i prefer less cables and connectors ...).

Can you please attach some images of all the assembling (NEO and Sat)?

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

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The pictures above in my earlier post are pretty much the same. All I have done in addition is change the satellite to NEO cable for Mikado's one.

What I have also done is add power to the free connections at AUX2.

There is nothing where we should claim about ...

How is the canopy? I think it is a nitro Rex? Is it a carbon canopy? In which orientation /distance to the Pilot was the model as it happened?

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

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Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

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Nitro T-Rex 600 with fibreglass canopy.

The model was approximately 30 metres from me.

The model was to my left and I was turning the model doing figure 8s so the model was banking round in a right hand turn.

I think the model was still banked over but the turn was almost complete.

Unfortunately as it was not level and I didn't hear the engine above other noises the head basically stopped and the model just dropped.

No speculation but you have mentioned you do not like additional cable but s-bus has been functioning I think without problem so I would like to discount that.

We don't know if the satellites are at fault or there is something on the model causing the problem but it is strange that everything has been fine for 151 flights. So an electronic fault perhaps?

If this satellite has a fault and if the first one in my original post was also faulty this should be a concern?

Hi Andy,

well, on a nitro we have the constant vibration input, to all items and components on the model.

I have even seen a pipe broken recently, in a Facebook post, and the guy kind of said, well, happens, need a new one.
And that's full-length made of metal (well not all of it, it was broken at a welding joint or so it seemed ...).

On the electronics, we have the soldering connections and the connectors and the wires where metal fatigue can happen, or where the soldering joints when wiggled ever so slightly all the time can eventually break, so I would not rule out the satellite or the connectors there, or even in the VBar.

In the good old times you wrapped the sensitive electronics in styrofoam, nowadays you stick them onto the model firmly (actually you have to, when it comes to the gadget with the sensors in it), so they are more prone to wear.
But the preconditions on a nitro haven't changed ...

If you have one, try a different satellite and wire, if the issue persists it could even be damage to the AUX2/3 port.
This we can try to repair, if it's only the soldering joints which have gone bad. If they have taken conducting paths with them from the pc board, it wouldn't be safte to repair I'm afraid.

Kind regards

Eddi

Born to fly ...
forced to work.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 08/14/2017 09:01AM by Eddi E. aus G..

High Eddi, Perhaps you have not read the whole thread?

This is the second satellite I have fitted to this model and the second cable is supplied by yourselves. The first cable I made NEO end up myself.

I don't know how many flights the first satellite performed in but it was first connected to a Silverline and then the NEO now in the model.

The second satellite has been in service for 151 flights.

If the NEO is faulty I would imagine it would of stayed faulty after I changed the satellite and not go for so many flights before another occurrence.

RV intimates he doesn't like the cable connection which begs the question of why did you make it if you are not confident? Why not post a warning that it is not a good idea to use it in a nitro?

I don't have another satellite and until something concrete is put forward from you I don't think it is a reliable resolution.

I know about vibration and flown nitro long enough without any problems until now and that goes for servos, gyros, receivers, switches, battery harnesses, etc. in service for far longer over years of use than the 4 or 5 months it has taken me to do 151 flights.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/14/2017 08:13PM by Andy from Sandy.

Hi Andy,

I'm sorry obviously I was only referring to the recent posts and did not read the whole thread again.

Regarding the satellite, of course it's a solution as reliable as with other external receivers or receiver satellites, it's just that we have one more wire in between and the connectors, so there are potentially additional points of failure—again, no matter if it's the VBar Control Satellite or the receiver or a different brand of radio.

I guess what RV wants to emphasize on is that, with the current version of the VBar with the receiver integrated in the main board, we have again less possible points of failure compared to the previous solution(s). The electronics themselves are much more resistant to the issues we had in the past, because the components are, too, and smaller, and lighter, so they don't "fall off the board" any more like the bigger components used to.
But still we have possible points of failure, like soldering joints, wires, connectors. I'm sure you made your experiences during your nitro time

Then, I try not to fall for the obvious too easily, so if, at a time, replacing the satellite did the trick we can be pretty sure it was the satellite or the connection then.

If we have a new situation, reset, start troubleshooting without making assumptions. The sat is newer, but the VBar is the same, has taken more beating if you want to call it that way during the last 150+ flights.

So it could be the sat or connection again (bummer if it was that way) or it could be the VBar itself this time, or even something different, a bad bearing for example could also create interference, we had a few cases during the history of the VBar where there were e.g. sensor checksum errors in the log suddenly, and only after starting to replace bearings they went away. This was also on models where an extra wire was laid out, to the external sensor.
We did not really think of that as a possible cause, to be honest, the customer told us that after he found out, and we pass on the info.

We know from experience—because we are modelers who make stuff for modelers, and fly the same stuff ourselves, and with confidence—that the VBar in any configuration can be used with confidence, on any type of model, from sail plane to turbine jet. But the particularities of the models and the particularities of the r/c model hobby in general have it that there can not be any guarantee, not for a certain service life or for each and every application and setup. The working conditions on the model must be as good as possible, sometimes workarounds have to be made (like the steel plate for vintage gyros, to dampen vibration influences) and so on.

I don't want to imply, don't get me wrong, I'm just saying. We all try and do it the best way we can and to the best of our knowledge, and I am sure there are pilots out there with more hours on the clock than me and more experience with different models
All I'm trying do do is help support our customers with our product (and even more, comparatively, with third-party products ...).

So back to the issue, there are only so many things you can do, for example:

. try an different sat on this VBar (again), or maybe just a new wire first
. try this sat on a different VBar if possible

Both as a cross-check to narrow down the cause or the culprit

Or

. replace both, for good measure, and better replace the VBar by a new VBar NEO VLink, not maybe by a used non VLink and Sat again (not necessarily because it would be unsafe, but to take a couple of possible points of failure out of the equation)
. and maybe use this NEO (maybe with a new sat or new wire) e.g. on a different model, maybe an electric where the preconditions are less demanding, if you don't trust it on a nitro/any more and if it turns out to be OK

In case the issue should persist on this particular model, even if you replaced both, it could be considered as evidence that the issue must be on the model.

Best,

Eddi

Born to fly ...
forced to work.

I will change to a neo with vlink.

You don't happen to have a picture or can you explain how you mounted the neo and placed the antennas please?

Hi Andy,

Rainer should be able to do that, he has the nitro in service.

Best,

Eddi

Born to fly ...
forced to work.

Here we go ...

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

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Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

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Hi,

it's even a first generation device, would be curios how many hours this one has on the clock ...

Kind regards

Eddi

Born to fly ...
forced to work.

And has a very low serial number!

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

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Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

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Thank you for the picture.

I bought the NEO July 2015.

It didn't see a lot of action in 2015 or 2016 as I was flying mainly electric.

Since the beginning of this year it has been in the air for approximately 29 1/2 hours.

I am just finalising the placement of the antennas and then I will be ready to go again at the weekend.

Well it lasted all of 7 flights for a total of approximately 56 minutes of flying.

IMU Sensor fail!

The NEO I have fitted is from my T-Rex 450 that has around 50 flights on it. I would think I am well past infant mortality time.

I am not the first to have IMU failure but for this unit to now fail is quite poor to be polite.

I have seen users suggest downgrading to pro but then what of my investment in rescue?

Same as the unit that was on the model prior - what is going to happen to my investment?

Height of summer and now two grounded models.

What's going on guys and what is the next step please?

You are talking about different IMU error messages. Keep in mind that there is a "Possibly hanging Z-Axis" Accelerometer issue - wich can be solved by changing the Initialization since 6.2 - before this was released we suggest going to pro temporarily. As we have been released 6.2 exactly one year ago - this is history and not needed for one year now.

http://www.vstabi.info/en/V6_2

So - please do not mess up your issue here with this one.


Back to yours - this seem to be a case for our service - please create a rma by clicking on the service icon at this device in your list here.

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

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Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

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I changed the initialization to standard but it made no difference.

I found a post about being a micro mechanical device so I tapped the NEO unit and now it initializes in precision mode.

Shouldl I still RMA the unit?

serial number is 20005638 running 6.3



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/19/2017 10:03PM by Andy from Sandy.

Yes, would be good for safety of course.

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

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Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

Für Posts und Antworten bitte einen PC und eine richtige Taststaur benutzen sowie alle Fragen vollständig abarbeiten. Nehmt Euch Zeit, beantwortet Rückfragen in Ruhe und vollständig.
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The unit is back from service and tested it over the week end in a t-rex 470.

On first power up it took several seconds to initialise so I powered off and on again. The second power up was much quicker.

With the model on the ground I walked a good distance from it with full control and a good signal showing in the status display.

The model flies fine and in precision init mode all is well.

Similarly after changing the pack and powering up the NEO again took several seconds to initialise. As everything checked out regarding sensor direction and rescue I flew the model. As the first flight no problem.

Thank you.

My NEO and 2 vlink satellites arrived to day thank you.