10' instead of 8 - is it the way to go?
Posted by ReadyToFly
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September 19, 2015 06:03PM |
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September 21, 2015 08:44AM |
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September 22, 2015 08:38AM |
Hi,
well, if we start in the public forums, courtesy and professionalism dictate that we remain present to answer follow-ups and get more and more involved, and it's already hard, at times, to keep track of all the threads of communication we serve. At times, you end up answering the same question of the same person here, there, via e-mail, via the feedback form on our web site, and with two or three of our staff involved
Then, it's not only HF but other boards worldwide, too ... and resources are what they are, limited.
So we try to provide good service and support on our turf
which is accessible to anyone who wants to get in touch with us.
But if you can provide a link, I can have a look.
In general, if a setup works for a particular pilot, all is well. It's just the fact that other pilots often have difficulties with the particularities of such special approaches, and with a setup 'by the book' you can get both, the feel of the heli you like _and_ a well behaved one at the same time
Cheers
Eddi
Born to fly ...
forced to work.
well, if we start in the public forums, courtesy and professionalism dictate that we remain present to answer follow-ups and get more and more involved, and it's already hard, at times, to keep track of all the threads of communication we serve. At times, you end up answering the same question of the same person here, there, via e-mail, via the feedback form on our web site, and with two or three of our staff involved
Then, it's not only HF but other boards worldwide, too ... and resources are what they are, limited.
So we try to provide good service and support on our turf
which is accessible to anyone who wants to get in touch with us.
But if you can provide a link, I can have a look.
In general, if a setup works for a particular pilot, all is well. It's just the fact that other pilots often have difficulties with the particularities of such special approaches, and with a setup 'by the book' you can get both, the feel of the heli you like _and_ a well behaved one at the same time
Cheers
Eddi
Born to fly ...
forced to work.
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September 23, 2015 08:49AM |
Hi again,
OK, thanks. I even happen to know this guy
Regarding the 10° for cyclic thing, I have a little story: one of our team pilots had us look at his heli's setup at IRCHA a few years ago, because he had taken over the more extreme settings and was not quite happy with it, also because the heli seemed to snap out of control at times. He said he could not do this or that because something weird happened (of which the heli quickly recovered, on the other hand). We looked over his heli and setup and he was astonished as we put the collective and cyclic sticks to their very limits and some of his servos went limp.
Because of the extreme settings and a flaw with the geometry (distance from servo shaft to ball link), the servos were overdriven in certain maneuvers.
Means, the maximum servo pulse those servos accept was exceeded, and the programmer of the servo firmware did not go for safety (e.g. leave the servos in the maximum position, with force), but if that happened the servos just went limp.
After re-doing his geometry, doing a standard setup for the swash plate, increasing agility a tad and overdriving the automatically found optimizer values for the swash plate to provide a little more crispness, he was happy.
As being said above, you can do that, especially if you are into hard smackdown style it directly helps a lot, so you might think 'what the heck', and 'why the heck fiddle with the other parameters if this does the trick'?
But on helis where the other parameters are not quite optimal (e.g. swash plate geometry, head dampening, or high trim values for individual servos because of a less-than-optimal mechanical setup), you can quickly run into issues because you amplify not only the stick response but also the control loop response, and that might lead to oscillations or (on 5.3) to a higher chance of ballooning or getting the dolphin thing when flying fast, because you reach the very limits of what is possible. And that was what quite a few pilots reported to me (and quite desperately) because the setup of a Pro would not work for them, and maybe the VBar might be not be OK or whatever ...
So what did they to to compensate for it? E.g. lower the overall main rotor gain, which you tend to do if you get oscillation, which made the heli sufficiently more sluggish, flying less precise and at times less predictable.
Reverting to standard and doing it our way did the trick, then.
Let's do it that way, if you like: you can always post that you were curious about the 8° or 10° and asked here, and you can link to this thread, so people can come here and have a look
Kind regards
Eddi
Born to fly ...
forced to work.
OK, thanks. I even happen to know this guy
Regarding the 10° for cyclic thing, I have a little story: one of our team pilots had us look at his heli's setup at IRCHA a few years ago, because he had taken over the more extreme settings and was not quite happy with it, also because the heli seemed to snap out of control at times. He said he could not do this or that because something weird happened (of which the heli quickly recovered, on the other hand). We looked over his heli and setup and he was astonished as we put the collective and cyclic sticks to their very limits and some of his servos went limp.
Because of the extreme settings and a flaw with the geometry (distance from servo shaft to ball link), the servos were overdriven in certain maneuvers.
Means, the maximum servo pulse those servos accept was exceeded, and the programmer of the servo firmware did not go for safety (e.g. leave the servos in the maximum position, with force), but if that happened the servos just went limp.
After re-doing his geometry, doing a standard setup for the swash plate, increasing agility a tad and overdriving the automatically found optimizer values for the swash plate to provide a little more crispness, he was happy.
As being said above, you can do that, especially if you are into hard smackdown style it directly helps a lot, so you might think 'what the heck', and 'why the heck fiddle with the other parameters if this does the trick'?
But on helis where the other parameters are not quite optimal (e.g. swash plate geometry, head dampening, or high trim values for individual servos because of a less-than-optimal mechanical setup), you can quickly run into issues because you amplify not only the stick response but also the control loop response, and that might lead to oscillations or (on 5.3) to a higher chance of ballooning or getting the dolphin thing when flying fast, because you reach the very limits of what is possible. And that was what quite a few pilots reported to me (and quite desperately) because the setup of a Pro would not work for them, and maybe the VBar might be not be OK or whatever ...
So what did they to to compensate for it? E.g. lower the overall main rotor gain, which you tend to do if you get oscillation, which made the heli sufficiently more sluggish, flying less precise and at times less predictable.
Reverting to standard and doing it our way did the trick, then.
Let's do it that way, if you like: you can always post that you were curious about the 8° or 10° and asked here, and you can link to this thread, so people can come here and have a look
Kind regards
Eddi
Born to fly ...
forced to work.
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September 25, 2015 08:30AM |
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September 25, 2015 08:31AM |
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