Logo 500se problem

Hi all

I'm just doing maiden check flights on a logo 500se standard combo kit. I am getting the Heli lite on its skids and lifting off and it starts nose turning left with left drift.

My vibes were 270 with the Mikado white pad having put it on the new red pads it sits at 120ish.

Any thoughts? Thank you
Stuart

Hello Stuart,

which radio and reciever is in use? - Is there a tail drift noticeable while running the heli on the bench w/o blades? - Is it also noticeable by switching into the flight conditions if the motor is unplugged?

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

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Rainer hi it has spektrum satelittes it's the JR 12x transmitter I can't say about the bench. I'm off to test it on the new tape this morning.

Thanks for your ongoing help
Stu

Okay so I figured it out! As I have a kontronik Esc set to normal- linear ie 0 25 50 75 100 and idle 1 65% straight and idle 2 80% straight I thought it was low head speed, I was only getting to hover point on normal and the drift started.

BUT I noticed that my tail blades on start up looked wrong. With the servo arm at 90 degrees and the tail in centre posn on tail slider I had zero pitch!! I'm not sure how this happened as I always set up around 4degrees tail against head torque.

SO when I was lifting the tail was not holding against the torque of the main blades. Couple this with higher head speed and it is rock solid. Now I know I should up my tail gain until I get tail wag then reduce it this gives me the best tail lock.

What is good start point for head and what am I looking for if I go to high??

Thanks everyone for the first help.

Stu

Ahhhh ... using a Gov in elcetric we never spool up like you do with a throttle curve. Just flip the switch from motor off (AR) to a flat curve representing your headspeed ...

About the basic tail pitch ... i would do a trim flight first and see what happens. If you want to set the tail linkage perfectly right ... please see here: http://www.vstabi.info/en/node/842#tail

Tail gain using Savox ... start with 70, possible up to 80 or 90. Using Futaba start with 80, possible up to 100.

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

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Rainer are you saying set normal to say flat line 55 idle 1 to 65 and idle 2 to my flying head speed?

If do do I put throttle hold on before attaching flight pack, therefore no hot start??

My tail servo is bls251 so is 70 still best to go with? I take it I increase until I get wag or bounce back? For the head I have set it to just below logo 600, again as I increase it what am I looking for?

Thank you again
Stuart

Yes, you won't get a hot start while pluggin on the battery and TH is active (motor off). Please check failsafe for "motor off" too:

http://www.vstabi.info/en/node/1246


The percentages / flat idle is ok. Kontronik has a soft spoolup and so .. jus flip the switch (at zero collective) for spoolup.


Tail servo ... yep. do like this, check for tail oscillating sound in FFF - it will be noticable there first.

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

Für Posts und Antworten bitte einen PC und eine richtige Taststaur benutzen sowie alle Fragen vollständig abarbeiten. Nehmt Euch Zeit, beantwortet Rückfragen in Ruhe und vollständig.
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Rainer thank you once tail is done what am I looking for as I increase head gain? I take it I just increase fly land plug in software increase and fly again?

Thanks
Stuart

Rainer I've read the following:

For usage with Spektrum Satellites, SBus, Single Line and UDI reciever we have a internal failsafe which is active when the Sats, SBus, Single Line, UDI won't deliver a valid signal to the VBar. This failsafe can be set in the PC software. Turn the motro channel to "off" on tx and press the button. Do a bench chek w/o blades. Run the heli (on nitros watching the throttle servo will be enough) and disconnect the Sats / SBus / Single Line / UDI reciever. The motor must stop / throttle servo move to throttle closed now.

What does "turn the motor Chanel to off" mean and how do I turn it off??

Stuart

Motor off ... is the throttle hold switch (in nitro language....) just the same as used to turn the motor off after a flight or for a autorotation.

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

Für Posts und Antworten bitte einen PC und eine richtige Taststaur benutzen sowie alle Fragen vollständig abarbeiten. Nehmt Euch Zeit, beantwortet Rückfragen in Ruhe und vollständig.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Für Einzelkommunikation bitte ausschließlich Email verwenden! - PN, Messenger, Chat usw. werden nicht bearbeitet.
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Hi Stuart,

I'd also like to see the setup file, I can probably give you some hints, too.

Then ... you need to get the bird into the air. When light on the skids, it's neither fish nor fowl.

Kind regards

Eddi

Born to fly ...
forced to work.

Hi Eddie thank you too for the help, what's the best route to get the setup file from the software??

Ok guys throttle hold checked in transmitter works fine,
Set it to throttle hold set fail safe in software, then blades off, powered on and pulled sats,,,, Heli spools down.

Thankyou.

I have saved my file Eddie, the forum is German so what do I push to attach the file??

Danke fur ihr helfe aber mine Deutsch nicht so gut ist.

Stu

Hi.

It's Datei Anhängen. I'm boarding a 12 hr flight now, so please be a little patient

Eddi

Born to fly ...
forced to work.

Hi all

I am trying to attach my vBar setup file for Eddie but when I attach it the Vorschau, Absenden, Abbrechen are no longer visible.

Any help?

Stuart

Eddi

Here it is

Stuart

Ahh ok ... it isn't allowed to attach .vbr files in the Logo board. I'll move the thread to VBar ...

Please attach teh .vbr file.

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

Für Posts und Antworten bitte einen PC und eine richtige Taststaur benutzen sowie alle Fragen vollständig abarbeiten. Nehmt Euch Zeit, beantwortet Rückfragen in Ruhe und vollständig.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
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Thanks Rainer I will send .vbr file in the vBar forum.

Thankyou
Stuart

Rainer thank you for moving the thread, Eddie and Rainer here is the file.

Stuart

Hi Stu,

chiming in from Singapore Changi Airport

Now, the setup looks not unusual, rather low rates for main rotor and tail but that's personal taste.

The tail limits could reveal that the servo arm is not at it's optimal length (usually, you get +/– 100 for a Logo).
Adjust vor 2-3° against the torque (powered off, servo arm 90° to the housing) as a starting point.
Does your tail rotor rotate in the correct direction (you would not be the first )?

Tail gain could be higher, as RV suggested. With the VBar tail and a BLS you won't run into troubles soon, with the Savox possible gains are limited, but they hold almost as well.

Kind regards

Eddi

Born to fly ...
forced to work.

Eddie

Wow thank you for the effort.

I have increased my amounts for head and tail to see how it feels. With regards the tail, if i used the logo arm it did not sit at 90 degrees so i used the bls 6 star shape and it sits perfect at 90 degrees but it is not the recommended 14mm it is more 13mm.

I am a bit confused on the tail set up advice on the mikado site, it tells you to get the servo horn as near to 90 degrees as posible in set up mode then switch heli off, set the horn manualy to 90 degrees (by turning horn on servo), set the tail to 3 degrees anti torque and adjust push rod to fit.

Surely as soon as the heli is turned on the tail servo will go BACK to the non 90 degree position therefore giving more or less anti torque than the set up 3 degrees?

Also tail rotates up into the head down wash leading grip tail cycling anti clockwise.

thanks
Stu



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/25/2012 03:46PM by stuart649.

Eddie

Hi i have adjusted the head gain to:95 and tail to:95 also looking at the tail in lock mode when i give a left rudder control (push rod moves backwards towards the tail, slider moves towards tail blades), if i release the stick i get a very slow continual creep until full left stop.

If i put right rudder stick input, slider moves towards the tail boom, push rod moves fwd towards heli, and on releasing the stick the slider holds solid.

Not sure if this eefects anything but my gear switch is set to 100 and 100. I guess in the old days this was used for rate and HH on flicking the switch.

Still a bit lost on setting the tail with the heli powered off. If I set as close to 90 degrees powered on, then power of and set exactly 90 degrees and set tail blades to 3 degrees then match push rod to the gap between servo horn (at 90) and tail (at 3 degrees) when i power up wont the tail blades go out of 3 degrees against main blade torque???


Any thoughts.

Stu

Quote:

Surely as soon as the heli is turned on the tail servo will go BACK to the non 90 degree position therefore giving more or less anti torque than the set up 3 degrees?

A heading hold (real HH, no discharge like others) centers itself by the integrator. Of course this conrol part has its limits too and so for best performance it is neede to find the "center" - this will be done during the trim flight.

Quote:

If i put right rudder stick input, slider moves towards the tail boom, push rod moves fwd towards heli, and on releasing the stick the slider holds solid.

Heading hold - this is ok. Should move to center if you move the heli like it does in the pirouette ;-)

Quote:

Not sure if this eefects anything but my gear switch is set to 100 and 100. I guess in the old days this was used for rate and HH on flicking the switch.

We don't have a normal mode (exception: Expert in a bank specified by the pilot) - This old thing was done by Futaba for GY 401 as they run out of channels ...

Quote:

Still a bit lost on setting the tail with the heli powered off. If I set as close to 90 degrees powered on, then power of and set exactly 90 degrees and set tail blades to 3 degrees then match push rod to the gap between servo horn (at 90) and tail (at 3 degrees) when i power up wont the tail blades go out of 3 degrees against main blade torque???

Trust in the Integrals and ... our trim flight ;-)

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

Für Posts und Antworten bitte einen PC und eine richtige Taststaur benutzen sowie alle Fragen vollständig abarbeiten. Nehmt Euch Zeit, beantwortet Rückfragen in Ruhe und vollständig.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Für Einzelkommunikation bitte ausschließlich Email verwenden! - PN, Messenger, Chat usw. werden nicht bearbeitet.
For single user communication please send a email only! PM, Messenger, Chat etc. won't be read.

Rainer

Thank you I will get it done tomorrow what is your thoughts on:

"......also looking at the tail in lock mode when i give a left rudder control (push rod moves backwards towards the tail, slider moves towards tail blades), if i release the stick i get a very slow continual creep until full left stop."

I give left stick then release the stick but the servo keeps driving the tail until the tail slider gets to the stop!

Stuart

Okay guys all fixed

After advice from Mr Mel I adjusted the RC dead band in Tail advanced settings and it is rock solid.

Thanks
Stuart