nitro-Governor throttle curve

Does the internal throttle curve act on failsafe mode only ?

Thanks for advice.
Wayne



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/02/2011 01:57PM by 6200.

No, it is always needed for feed forward on throttle depending to collective input.

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

Für Posts und Antworten bitte einen PC und eine richtige Taststaur benutzen sowie alle Fragen vollständig abarbeiten. Nehmt Euch Zeit, beantwortet Rückfragen in Ruhe und vollständig.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Für Einzelkommunikation bitte ausschließlich Email verwenden! - PN, Messenger, Chat usw. werden nicht bearbeitet.
For single user communication please send a email only! PM, Messenger, Chat etc. won't be read.

Thanks .
Wayne

Rainer, What should the internal throttle curve look like for us scale elect flyers not using "V" curves?

thanks - Grant



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/2011 09:23PM by grantl.

Hi Grant,

it must not fit perfect. I would have it as a nearly flat curve below the center.

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

Für Posts und Antworten bitte einen PC und eine richtige Taststaur benutzen sowie alle Fragen vollständig abarbeiten. Nehmt Euch Zeit, beantwortet Rückfragen in Ruhe und vollständig.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Für Einzelkommunikation bitte ausschließlich Email verwenden! - PN, Messenger, Chat usw. werden nicht bearbeitet.
For single user communication please send a email only! PM, Messenger, Chat etc. won't be read.

RV Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Grant,
>
> it must not fit perfect. I would have it as a
> nearly flat curve below the center.

What would you suggest here? Thanks - Grant

Lets say ... 30 - 40 - 50 - 70 - 90

(the gov should do the rest)

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

Für Posts und Antworten bitte einen PC und eine richtige Taststaur benutzen sowie alle Fragen vollständig abarbeiten. Nehmt Euch Zeit, beantwortet Rückfragen in Ruhe und vollständig.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Für Einzelkommunikation bitte ausschließlich Email verwenden! - PN, Messenger, Chat usw. werden nicht bearbeitet.
For single user communication please send a email only! PM, Messenger, Chat etc. won't be read.

RV Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lets say ... 30 - 40 - 50 - 70 - 90
>
> (the gov should do the rest)

Thanks Rainer...

BTW.. I have the end point problem that MrMel did a video on.. Throttle Trim.. Is there an update to 5.1.6 coming out to fix this?

hehehe ...

http://www.vstabi.info/forum/read.php?20,55326,58229#msg-58229

Read this - No VBar issue, a TX feature ;-)

(Thanks for remembering me to do that ...)

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

Für Posts und Antworten bitte einen PC und eine richtige Taststaur benutzen sowie alle Fragen vollständig abarbeiten. Nehmt Euch Zeit, beantwortet Rückfragen in Ruhe und vollständig.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Für Einzelkommunikation bitte ausschließlich Email verwenden! - PN, Messenger, Chat usw. werden nicht bearbeitet.
For single user communication please send a email only! PM, Messenger, Chat etc. won't be read.

Rv, thats not the real issue with throttle trim, the problem is that -100/+100 throttle is today absolute, where it need to be dynamic, it need to rescale with motor off/full throttle.
(this is also why % min gov differ from setup to setup, which would not be needed otherwise)

RV Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lets say ... 30 - 40 - 50 - 70 - 90
>
> (the gov should do the rest)

Rainer.. I'm trying to understand the internal curve...

Regarding your suggested settings.. My existing pitch curve in my TX is
38 - 51 -64 - 77 - 90

Should the internal setting match my pitch curve closer or am I still way off base here?
Thanks
Grant

Ohh ... thats not far away from what i expected ;-)

It won't make a big difference, you can use your values also.

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

Für Posts und Antworten bitte einen PC und eine richtige Taststaur benutzen sowie alle Fragen vollständig abarbeiten. Nehmt Euch Zeit, beantwortet Rückfragen in Ruhe und vollständig.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Für Einzelkommunikation bitte ausschließlich Email verwenden! - PN, Messenger, Chat usw. werden nicht bearbeitet.
For single user communication please send a email only! PM, Messenger, Chat etc. won't be read.

MrMel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Rv, thats not the real issue with throttle trim,
> the problem is that -100/+100 throttle is today
> absolute, where it need to be dynamic, it need to
> rescale with motor off/full throttle.
> (this is also why % min gov differ from setup to
> setup, which would not be needed otherwise)

Rainer, anything new on this issue? Thanks - Grant

Rainer, I know, I'm thick!!! I've been reading lots of forums on the throttle Curve and still don't grasp how it's used or what's it related to.. How does it really work? What do the curve numbers relate too?

My curve is: 38 - 51 -64 - 77 - 90

I hear "Feed forward".. OK.. so what does that mean? When I'm at 50% on my collective stick, What is the "64" feeding forward to?

Thank You
Grant

OK ...

You drive a car? - I think so. A little Story about that (i hope my english will be good enough).

Imagine you are driving a car on a flat road. You are handicapped and only able to see the speed display at your dashboard. No sight through the windscreen for you ;-(. Driving on a flat road it will be a easy task to keep up a constant speed from 50 mph with the speed display as only information. But ... there will be a hill and the street will go over it. So ... at the bottom of the hill the speed decreases, lets say to 40 mph, you will mention that and hit the throttle more until you reach 50 mph again. At the top of the hil .... the same vice versa. Speed increases to 60, you will lower the throttle until 50 mph again.

This is like any kind of E-Gov sees the dependencie of collective and Headspeed! - Just blind and never knowing what will be the next task of the pilot.


Now ... Imagine the Story above in "real live" ... you drive the car, you see the hill a long time before ... and at the begin of the hill you will push the throttle to keep up the speed before it decreases! - the same at the other side ... you decrease the throttle before the car will speed up too much becuse you have seen that you are driving downwards.

This is just a simple "feed forward" - done by your eyes to the throttle. Now ... just the same as our throttle curve in the heli does to keep the Headspeed as best as possible in dependencie of the collective load.

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

Für Posts und Antworten bitte einen PC und eine richtige Taststaur benutzen sowie alle Fragen vollständig abarbeiten. Nehmt Euch Zeit, beantwortet Rückfragen in Ruhe und vollständig.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Für Einzelkommunikation bitte ausschließlich Email verwenden! - PN, Messenger, Chat usw. werden nicht bearbeitet.
For single user communication please send a email only! PM, Messenger, Chat etc. won't be read.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/05/2011 09:48PM by RV.

Thank You so much Rainer.. Understood perfectly..

So how do I apply this to my settings for tweaking?

If I'm running a flat line in my TX of 96% for a gov settings of 1800 rpm and am at collective of 50%, my VBar throttle curve setting is 64% (See my settings in this thread)

This is where I'm lost now. What is that 64% number have to do with my collective stick position of 50% in the "Feed Forward" method? How do we arrive at what that % should be based on the pitch curve?

Thanks again...

OK,

please keep in mind that the feed forward through the curve must not be set 100% right. Our governor is still there to equalize some differencies.

It isn't also important that the absolute height of the curve (0% means approx. half throttle, depending on the throttle servotravel in Gov 2 Tab) must fit. The height of the curve will be "moved" internally by the integral value in the govermor.

But ... the most important thing is the shape. The more collective, the more throttle. If the Motor slows down on full collective give more throttle. These differencies will be also regulated by the proportional control loop part in flight. So ... a roughly correct shape will be enough.

But ... if you want to tweak it to the limit set governor gain and i/p/collective dynamic/cyclic to 0 and fly curve only. Now adjust it to get a nearly constant headspeed.

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

Für Posts und Antworten bitte einen PC und eine richtige Taststaur benutzen sowie alle Fragen vollständig abarbeiten. Nehmt Euch Zeit, beantwortet Rückfragen in Ruhe und vollständig.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Für Einzelkommunikation bitte ausschließlich Email verwenden! - PN, Messenger, Chat usw. werden nicht bearbeitet.
For single user communication please send a email only! PM, Messenger, Chat etc. won't be read.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/05/2011 11:50PM by RV.

Hi Rainer,

That last comment seems like a perfect way to quickly finetune the curve part of the governor. However different pitch moves ( I mean in speed) get a different outcome. Do you mean actually tweaking until headspeed is near constant at climbouts or more moderate stick input?

Ow, Im talking electric here, but still seems intresting to try.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/06/2011 10:45PM by velocity90.

I think for normal flying and moderate input would be good.

For fast movements ... we have our control loop and also the collective parameter ....

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

Für Posts und Antworten bitte einen PC und eine richtige Taststaur benutzen sowie alle Fragen vollständig abarbeiten. Nehmt Euch Zeit, beantwortet Rückfragen in Ruhe und vollständig.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Für Einzelkommunikation bitte ausschließlich Email verwenden! - PN, Messenger, Chat usw. werden nicht bearbeitet.
For single user communication please send a email only! PM, Messenger, Chat etc. won't be read.

Hi Rainer,

Thank you for the very Quick reply. Will try that method on the field. To be sure, around midstick I will still get the requested rpm with all the gains of the gov turned off? The rpm sensor will be basicly off after spoolup?

Yes, the curve will be as only thing here. The RPM Sensor has no effect, we will accelerate the system with the runup spped until we reach the curve.

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

Für Posts und Antworten bitte einen PC und eine richtige Taststaur benutzen sowie alle Fragen vollständig abarbeiten. Nehmt Euch Zeit, beantwortet Rückfragen in Ruhe und vollständig.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Für Einzelkommunikation bitte ausschließlich Email verwenden! - PN, Messenger, Chat usw. werden nicht bearbeitet.
For single user communication please send a email only! PM, Messenger, Chat etc. won't be read.

So the rpm can be higher or lower than the value you enter at the requested rpm when running 100% gov? Or is it active on spoolup?

Yes. only the shape will be important.

I would adjust the curve for low rpm and our integral will do the rest at high headspeed ;-)

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

Für Posts und Antworten bitte einen PC und eine richtige Taststaur benutzen sowie alle Fragen vollständig abarbeiten. Nehmt Euch Zeit, beantwortet Rückfragen in Ruhe und vollständig.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Für Einzelkommunikation bitte ausschließlich Email verwenden! - PN, Messenger, Chat usw. werden nicht bearbeitet.
For single user communication please send a email only! PM, Messenger, Chat etc. won't be read.

Ok. And I change the headspeed by lowering the curve overall?

Yes. The overall HS will be defined by the height of the curve. Thats all.

But ... as stated before set it at low rpm. The "height" for higher HS will be moved by the integral value in our loops internally ;-)

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

Für Posts und Antworten bitte einen PC und eine richtige Taststaur benutzen sowie alle Fragen vollständig abarbeiten. Nehmt Euch Zeit, beantwortet Rückfragen in Ruhe und vollständig.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Für Einzelkommunikation bitte ausschließlich Email verwenden! - PN, Messenger, Chat usw. werden nicht bearbeitet.
For single user communication please send a email only! PM, Messenger, Chat etc. won't be read.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/06/2011 11:38PM by RV.

Will do. So basicly I can use mr mels headspeed calc without gov to find out the requested headspeed % with my maingear+pinion and have that value at the middle of the v curve?

Hmmm ... never thought about that but.. you will see. Give this a try.

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

Für Posts und Antworten bitte einen PC und eine richtige Taststaur benutzen sowie alle Fragen vollständig abarbeiten. Nehmt Euch Zeit, beantwortet Rückfragen in Ruhe und vollständig.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Für Einzelkommunikation bitte ausschließlich Email verwenden! - PN, Messenger, Chat usw. werden nicht bearbeitet.
For single user communication please send a email only! PM, Messenger, Chat etc. won't be read.

Will try, but will use the calc to be on the safe side I will hear it if im close to the rpm I have in mind.