Logo 480 - Tail wag issues and phasing

Hi,

About four months ago i bought a Logo 480 Super Combo. And I’m really pleased with it! My previous heli is a Trex 450, and the Logo 480 is a great heli for the next step!
The reason that I started this tread, because I had two problems with this heli. This problems are already solved, but I would like to know Mikado vision about the problems.

Problem 1: Tail wag
I had a little tail wag in hover. In normal flight (sport and light 3D) I don’t have any problems with it. But in hover you saw a nervous tail. I didn’t liked that. So I tried several things to resolve this annoying tail wag. Like; Played with the belt tension, played with the tail gain (between 50 and 80), tried different head speeds. And checked multiple times my mechanical setup, to get a smooth tail movement.
But the solution for me was; the Futaba BLS-251 tail servo. After I replaced the stock Savox SH-1290MG for the Futaba servo, my tail wag was gone! See also my Youtube video for my build tips, and for the comparison between the Savox and the Futaba servo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ewmtqbvdc18

I also have a friend that also have a Logo 480, and he also had a tail wag in hover. And on internet you also find many threats with tail wag issues with the Logo 480. It sounds to me it is a common issue. How does Mikado thinks about this? Is it a common issue? Is this heli sensitive for a really really smooth tail build?

Problem 2: Phasing
When I did a flip, I noticed that the heli didn’t returned to the same horizon level as I started the flip. I double checked my vBar setup, but my swash was really level on full negative, zero degrees and on full positive. On internet I founded a tip to test if the problem was phasing. “Place both blades and grips perfectly in line with the heli and boom nose to tail. Give aileron stick commands and the blades should move, however there should be NO movement with elevator commands.”
And when I did that test, my bladed did move when I moved the elevator. So my problem was phasing! I noticed that you can resolve this in the vBar setup menu. (Swash menu) But I prefer to solve that mechanical. My Anti-rotation bracket was original correct centered. I adjusted the Anti-rotation bracket a little bit. (So that the Anti-rotation bracket comes on one side closer to the side-plate) And that solved my phasing problem. I don’t know what part is causing the phasing problem. But I’m guessing that my swash plate has a little offset.

I also checked this problem by my friends Logo 480. And he has also a little bit phasing. (Not that much as I had) But I’m curious; Is this also a common complaint of the Logo 480?


Once again. I’m really pleased with this heli! He got enough power, is really great visible in the air. And it is really great and fun to fly with! But I’m curios how Mikado think about my two problems.

Regards,
Patrick



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/10/2014 07:23PM by Silent_NL.

Quote:

Problem 2: Phasing
When I did a flip, I noticed that the heli didn’t returned to the same horizon level as I started the flip. I double checked my vBar setup, but my swash was really level on full negative, zero degrees and on full positive. On internet I founded a tip to test if the problem was phasing. “Place both blades and grips perfectly in line with the heli and boom nose to tail. Give aileron stick commands and the blades should move, however there should be NO movement with elevator commands.”
And when I did that test, my bladed did move when I moved the elevator. So my problem was phasing! I noticed that you can resolve this in the vBar setup menu. (Swash menu) But I prefer to solve that mechanical. My Anti-rotation bracket was original correct centered. I adjusted the Anti-rotation bracket a little bit. And that solved my phasing problem. I don’t know what part is causing the phasing problem. But I’m guessing that my swash plate has a little offset.

I also checked this problem by my friends Logo 480. And he has also a little bit phasing. (Not that much as I had) But I’m curious; Is this also a common complaint of the Logo 480?

Ok - phasing is my thing to chime in here ...

Please consider that the 90 deg "lead" for cyclic commands is a basic thing which can - but must not - be 90 deg.
So - at least - the real phasing depends on several things like Dampening, Blades, Headspeed, Mass, RPM, Temperature etc. and must be flown out if someone want to do it perfect ;-) - For Example and to get a overview of the range - a manned BO 105 has 72 deg instead of 90. My 1.80 BO 105 here needs 80 deg. instead of 90.

Anyway - if it might have to do something with the swash - it must change by turning the inner ring 90 deg (remove all 4 ball links, turn 90 deg, mount and try.)

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

Für Posts und Antworten bitte einen PC und eine richtige Taststaur benutzen sowie alle Fragen vollständig abarbeiten. Nehmt Euch Zeit, beantwortet Rückfragen in Ruhe und vollständig.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Für Einzelkommunikation bitte ausschließlich Email verwenden! - PN, Messenger, Chat usw. werden nicht bearbeitet.
For single user communication please send a email only! PM, Messenger, Chat etc. won't be read.

Quote:

Problem 1: Tail wag
I had a little tail wag in hover. In normal flight (sport and light 3D) I don’t have any problems with it. But in hover you saw a nervous tail. I didn’t liked that. So I tried several things to resolve this annoying tail wag. Like; Played with the belt tension, played with the tail gain (between 50 and 80), tried different head speeds. And checked multiple times my mechanical setup, to get a smooth tail movement.
But the solution for me was; the Futaba BLS-251 tail servo. After I replaced the stock Savox SH-1290MG for the Futaba servo, my tail wag was gone! See also my Youtube video for my build tips, and for the comparison between the Savox and the Futaba servo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ewmtqbvdc18

Well done videos! - are this yours?

About the servos - it is - as always - a compromise. Savox are not high priced - and have some limits of course. Especially on a tail you will always have a better result with a Futaba one - but it costs much more too.

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

Für Posts und Antworten bitte einen PC und eine richtige Taststaur benutzen sowie alle Fragen vollständig abarbeiten. Nehmt Euch Zeit, beantwortet Rückfragen in Ruhe und vollständig.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Für Einzelkommunikation bitte ausschließlich Email verwenden! - PN, Messenger, Chat usw. werden nicht bearbeitet.
For single user communication please send a email only! PM, Messenger, Chat etc. won't be read.

Quote:

Please consider that the 90 deg "lead" for cyclic commands is a basic thing which can - but must not - be 90 deg.
So - at least - the real phasing depends on several things like Dampening, Blades, Headspeed, Mass, RPM, Temperature etc. and must be flown out if someone want to do it perfect ;-) - For Example and to get a overview of the range - a manned BO 105 has 72 deg instead of 90. My 1.80 BO 105 here needs 80 deg. instead of 90.

Anyway - if it might have to do something with the swash - it must change by turning the inner ring 90 deg (remove all 4 ball links, turn 90 deg, mount and try.)

Thank for your reply! I dont't understand you're term: BO. Where does that stand for?
For now, I'm happy after I adjusted my anti-rotation bracket a little bit. After that change, I can do a flip, and returned to the same horizon level as I started the flip. But I will keep this in mind about turning the inner ring.

BO 105 - A heli which is flown e.g. by Red Bull ;-)

just google it!

http://www.redbull.com/cs/Satellite/en_INT/Video/Flipping-out-021242781353823

http://www.vstabi.info/forum/read.php?10,25374

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

Für Posts und Antworten bitte einen PC und eine richtige Taststaur benutzen sowie alle Fragen vollständig abarbeiten. Nehmt Euch Zeit, beantwortet Rückfragen in Ruhe und vollständig.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Für Einzelkommunikation bitte ausschließlich Email verwenden! - PN, Messenger, Chat usw. werden nicht bearbeitet.
For single user communication please send a email only! PM, Messenger, Chat etc. won't be read.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/10/2014 07:44PM by RV.

Quote:

Well done videos! - are this yours?

About the servos - it is - as always - a compromise. Savox are not high priced - and have some limits of course. Especially on a tail you will always have a better result with a Futaba one - but it costs much more too.

Yes, thats my video!

Agree, it is always a compromise. But I read allot of complains about the tail wag of the Logo 480. That’s why I was wondering how Mikado thinks about that. Isn’t than a bad choice of Mikado, to place a Savox on the tail?

Hi,

in general, the Savox Servos work sufficiently well, and many pilots do not really complain about a slight wag (what's the definition of a slight wag? ) in a hover, since and if it does not affect normal flight. Mine wag too, at times, depending on head speed, temperature, cleanliness of the tail shaft/tail pitch slider, moon phases ...).

Compared to the overall number of pilots around flying Savox, the complaints you read about are not excessively many, but of course you rarely see long threads where everybody just writes: I fly 480 and Savox and I have no tail wag, yeehaw! you mainly read complaints because people come to the forums with issues, not with praise usually.

So to put kind of budget servos in the super combo makes sense. Of course you can always just take the kit and choose your own brand of servos, or replace just the tail servo of the super combo _if_ you encounter issues that can not be overcome with the usual tail setup procedures.
Even if you choose to take a different tail servo, you save money with the super combo.

Maybe it makes sense to offer a different combo with a more high-end tail servo ... we will keep that in mind.

Kind regards

Eddi

Born to fly ...
forced to work.

Hi Silent_NL !

I have exactly the same problem !

I bought a used logo 480xxtreme, and the first owner has bought as a super combo... Exactly the same configuration.

I did follow the steps you told in this thread, but I think the only way to solve this problem is buying a faster tail servo, like you told...