motor cut off in flight and crash

Hi there,

I have a problem with my CC Edge 160hv ESC and/or my Neo. Motor stopped running in flight yesterday and I had a crash. I fly with no canopy, so I do not think the cut off was caused by high temperature.

On Neo's log I found "Governor Sensor no Signal" only during the crash flight, immediately before the crash.

I was running the Vbar governor. ESC governor was disabled.

Neo is 2 weeks old.

I wonder if you guys can tell me what is going on.

Log attached.

Thanks a lot.



2 mal bearbeitet. Zuletzt am 07.08.2022 19:18 von ReadyToFly.

Hello,

thanks for the logs.

My conclusions:

The RPM no signal is a followup from a ESC issue. Have a look at the ESC log, i have added the header and the first line as well as the last 2 lines:

Quote:

# Start Of Session - Sample Time: 1.000
# Reset Source (Cause of reset): Normal Boot-up Sequence, 255
# Voltage Cutoff: 38.67
# Current Cutoff: 240.0
# Temperature Cutoff: 289.7
# Idle Times:
Throttle , Power-Out , Voltage , Ripple , Current , Temperature , Speed , Gov. Gain , BEC Voltage , Motor Temp.
True , True , True , True , True , True , True , True , True , False
1.0799 , 0.000 , 49.44 , 0.000 , 0.0 , 83.4 , 0 , 15 , 7.58 , 0.00
1.7774 , 86.275 , 45.01 , 1.057 , 46.9 , 112.2 , 94522 , 15 , 7.42 , 0.00
0.5000 , 0.000 , 46.06 , 0.211 , 0.0 , 113.2 , 0 , 15 , 0.00 , 0.00

It starts with the correct pulse for "Motor Off" 1.0799 us.
The end (2nd from bottom) is somewhere at a defined load first with a valid Throttle Pulse 1.7774 us.

The last line has a pulse of 0.5000 us which is never given out by the NEO. It also shows 0V on the BEC which is a bit strange too. If it would have been the Pulse only it could be a bad contact on ESC master wire (one Pulse cuts into 2 half "short" ones when it losses contact at the right time). But the BEC showing 0V points me to the ESC. All other flights above the BEC still has power at the last line of each flight.

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

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2 mal bearbeitet. Zuletzt am 07.08.2022 19:45 von RV.

Hello RV,

The ESC I am using doesn't have a BEC. I run a separate CC BEC. Is this BEC reading on the log related to the external BEC?

I had problems with CC ESC + Vbar before. This isn't the first time something like this happens involving the very same "Governor Sensor no Signal" message, by the way.

1) Could it be that a given ESC won't work perfectly with a given Vbar Neo, but will work flawless with another Neo?

2) I'm pretty sure the "Governor Sensor no Signal" was the occurrence that caused the problem. It coincides with the precise moment the problem happened. Does this message appear only when running the Vbar governor? Do you think it would be safe to run the ESC governor, instead?

3) Do you think running an external RPM sensor would be a solution?

Thanks.



2 mal bearbeitet. Zuletzt am 08.08.2022 23:21 von ReadyToFly.

Quote:

2) I'm pretty sure the "Governor Sensor no Signal" was the occurrence that caused the problem. It coincides with the precise moment the problem happened. Does this message appear only when running the Vbar governor? Do you think it would be safe to run the ESC governor, instead?

The missing RPM Pulse will never be the reason for a power loss, just a followup of something disturbing the RPM siganl or giving a weired pulse there (CC had some trouble here using external sensors). In Case of a RPM Pulse loss we switch to the internal throttle curve which is always behind our governor for feed forward in gov mode. Just try. Run the heli on the bench w/o blades and unplug RPM ... (this saved my BO 105 twice a few years ago, i know how this works).


In Fact i can't tell you details about CC ESC's as no one uses them here. So our experience is ages ago. What the BEC reading does - i don't know. You might get a clue by measuring your RC pack voltage and see if it is the same which was logged.

But - speaking about external RC power ... is the BEC then disconnected from all?

Anyway - a 0.5000us pulse is not given by the NEO at the end.

What is also a bit confusing - the CC log ends at this point. It seems to be that this is the point where the RPM was lost. But - as the NEO Log just continues - my question is ... why does the CC Log not continue as it should too? - This might be the most serious hint at all. It could be ESC itself or probably something with the flight battery connection. It seem to be ESC shuts off by itself as in this last line the voltage increased, so there was less load on the battery but still connected.

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

Für Posts und Antworten bitte einen PC und eine richtige Taststaur benutzen sowie alle Fragen vollständig abarbeiten. Nehmt Euch Zeit, beantwortet Rückfragen in Ruhe und vollständig.
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Für Einzelkommunikation bitte ausschließlich Email verwenden! - PN, Messenger, Chat usw. werden nicht bearbeitet.
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1 mal bearbeitet. Zuletzt am 09.08.2022 06:29 von RV.

Hello, RV,

I just noticed that the one motor wire is disconnected from its plug.

If it happened in flight, could it explain the motor cut off and messages on the Vbar and ESC logs?

Thanks.

Hmmm ... hard to say.

It depends on how CC protects its hardware in this case from further damage. if there is a kind of "emergency shutdown" implemented for such a case it will be the right track. But i a m not sure, so probably castle coulsd answer only.

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

Für Posts und Antworten bitte einen PC und eine richtige Taststaur benutzen sowie alle Fragen vollständig abarbeiten. Nehmt Euch Zeit, beantwortet Rückfragen in Ruhe und vollständig.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Für Einzelkommunikation bitte ausschließlich Email verwenden! - PN, Messenger, Chat usw. werden nicht bearbeitet.
For single user communication please send a email only! PM, Messenger, Chat etc. won't be read.



1 mal bearbeitet. Zuletzt am 14.08.2022 19:18 von RV.