Turbine Fadec + Neo VLink v6

Hi,
Been searching in this forum but I can’t find what I’m searching for.
I have wren 50i turbine and fadec ecu. I manage to start the turbine via macrocell, because it’s fairly easy to set it up to achive the pulse needed to start and stop the turbine (I set it up watching the pulse on the hamd data terminal).
I’d like to change into vbar n-gov, but till now I can’t find a way to get it into ready position.
The pulse needs are :
1. Below 1000uS (mine 970uS) is turbine stop (0% throttle) -> stick down trim down
2. Around 1000uS (mine 1020uS) is turbine ready position -> stick down trim up
3. Around 2000uS (mine 2024uS) is turbine cooling before start -> stick up trim down
4. Around 2400uS (mine 2443uS) is turbine full speed -> stick up trim up
Tried several way to emulate this from n-gov, still no luck at all. Trying end point but the lowest I can get is 10% throttle.
Can anyone show me step by step how to do this?
Sorry, I write in english.
Thank you.


Kumoro

I would do this way:

1 - Position from Nitro Kill Switch
2 - Position Kill Switch "on" - Motor Switch "Off" which meand idle on a nitro (adjust there)
3 - Position Auto (toggle once to Run and back - now it is there) - also in setup as value
4 - Use the special nitro throttlecurve, Bank1 as "No Gov", Bank2/2 with Gov, keep curves in useful ranges. Set min Limit as needed.

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

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> 1 - Position from Nitro Kill Switch
Is it the same motor kill switch??3 position switch. Position 1 : motor off, position 2 (middle): motor idle position 3 : motor run??

> 2 - Position Kill Switch "on" - Motor Switch "Off"
> which meand idle on a nitro (adjust there)
In this case, position 2? Motor idle??

> 3 - Position Auto (toggle once to Run and back -
> now it is there) - also in setup as value
Auto in my opinion is motor idle (position 2, middle)

> 4 - Use the special nitro throttlecurve, Bank1 as
> "No Gov", Bank2/2 with Gov, keep curves in useful
> ranges. Set min Limit as needed.
How to do this?sorry new to nitro gov. This far I only set for external gov (my esc gov).

I’m still wondering how can I manipulate those switch in order to get the pulse width right (for off, ready, idle and stop).
Thank you.



1 mal bearbeitet. Zuletzt am 19.05.2020 15:14 von kumoro.

Kill is a separate Switch. This will be the key herein zwingen this one.

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

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RV schrieb:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Kill is a separate Switch. This will be the key
If I choose switch 3 as motor switch, I can choose switch 1 as kill switch??
How do I assign kill switch??
Already set throttle direct bank to switch 3 (motor switch) and throttle cut to switch 1

Also, when I read data terminal, when I set low limit, all I can reach is (on the HDT) 10%, while I need 2% (lowest) in order to get ready state (light lit on the ECU). This causing HDT Status is showing StickLo!. try to modify gain, but still no luck.

Sorry for asking this very basic questions, since I am not just new to nitro gov, but also blind.

Quote:

How do I assign kill switch??

In the Nitro App - depends ... VBC or VBCt?

https://www.vstabi.info/en/node/1949

(also named throttle cut)


Once again:

- enable nitro governor
- go to model setup
- set all idle values to 0, throttle throw to +-100
- assign cut (kill) switch - use as liked but not banks or motor switch
- this is the position for "Total off" Below 1000uS - if it is too high adjust throw above for "Stop" to 110...120
- exit the setup
- In flight parameters set up a nitro idle value
- check with kill switch (motor switch is stop) if it toggles between both
- set up idle value Around 1000uS for "ready"


To get more ... is there a manaul available for this ECO to download? - i am struggling with the cooling sequence ... (complicated thing, a JetCat is so easy ...)

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

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Hi Rainer,
This is Fadec 10 manual. I have downloaded it, but ever since this site don't allow pdf and the file size is limited to 600MB, so I cant upload it here.
Hope that helps you to figure out the rest.
Thank you.

PS.
I follow your instruction, but it doesn't work, since I can't make pulse for 990uS (0%), maybe there's step that I missed. Also, when status "Ready", when you push the throttle stick to maximum, the status on the Hand data terminial is Cooling and when you retract to minimum position, the start sequence is begin. I haven't got this on my trial.
After followong your step, what I still missing are (on the Hand Data Terminal)
1. Trim Low Status : this is when trim low and stick low position
2. Cooling : this is when trim up and stick up right after READY status and push the throttle stick up
3. Stop : turbine off - trim low, stick low. This is initiate cooling after turbine operate.

My plan would be:

- set up the ECU to Auto-Start (Page 12) Kero or Gas
- install a RPM sensor on the main shaft for the VGov
- enable VBar nitro governor
- ensure no idle value is set in flight panel and throws are +-100% (default)
- assign cut switch
- assign a idle value of 15%


Teach in - see Page 7:

- Motor switch to on, Cut switch to on, Stick full positive
- teach Stick Up Trim Up (Image 1)

- Cut switch to off (others don't care then)
- teach Stick down, Trim down (image 2)

- Cut to on, motor off, Stick doesn't care
- teach Stick down, trim up (image 3)


Throttle curve and GOV setting hints:

- set up the throttle curve Bank 1 as linear one for spoolup, use "special throttle curve" - set lowest point to same value as the idle (check with ECU) so the turbine won't stop here (can be used as 3rd RPM later if all works)
- estimate the right throttle value for ground at 0 deg and hovering with this curve as default for the following Bank2/3 v-curves
- set up the throttle curve Bank 2/3 with a VBC/VBCt and the "special throttle curve" first (7-point curve) with Gov Gain = 0 (Gov off) with the values estimated above as basic information and try them still with 0 Gain
- enable gain (start with 10 points) to get the gov working, ensure that the low limit value is high enough to keep the turbine responsive even at descends.

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

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RV schrieb:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My plan would be:
>
> - set up the ECU to Auto-Start (Page 12) Kero or
> Gas
> - install a RPM sensor on the main shaft for the
> VGov
> - enable VBar nitro governor
> - ensure no idle value is set in flight panel and
> throws are +-100% (default)
> - assign cut switch
> - assign a idle value of 15%
>
>
> Teach in - see Page 7:
>
> - Motor switch to on, Cut switch to on, Stick full
> positive
> - teach Stick Up Trim Up (Image 1)
>
> - Cut switch to off (others don't care then)
> - teach Stick down, Trim down (image 2)
>
> - Cut to on, motor off, Stick doesn't care
> - teach Stick down, trim up (image 3)


Cut motor to on, means activate throttle cut??I follow your steps, but in the contrary. for example :
Motor switch to on, Cut switch to on, Stick full positive
- teach Stick Up Trim Up (Image 1)
What I do is I turn off the cut switch instead of turning on, because it's strange I start the engine with throttle cut on.
Maybe it's just about terms, but I believe we're in the same page


> Throttle curve and GOV setting hints:
>
> - set up the throttle curve Bank 1 as linear one
> for spoolup, use "special throttle curve" - set
> lowest point to same value as the idle (check with
> ECU) so the turbine won't stop here (can be used
> as 3rd RPM later if all works)
> - estimate the right throttle value for ground at
> 0 deg and hovering with this curve as default for
> the following Bank2/3 v-curves
> - set up the throttle curve Bank 2/3 with a
> VBC/VBCt and the "special throttle curve" first
> (7-point curve) with Gov Gain = 0 (Gov off) with
> the values estimated above as basic information
> and try them still with 0 Gain
> - enable gain (start with 10 points) to get the
> gov working, ensure that the low limit value is
> high enough to keep the turbine responsive even at
> descends.

So we do need throttle curve in bank 2 & 3? using macrocell??. Can we just put a number, let say 1750 for bank 2 and 1900 for bank 3?since I already installed rpm sensor (magnet) and it reads well.

Thank you.



1 mal bearbeitet. Zuletzt am 26.05.2020 05:42 von kumoro.

Quote:

Motor switch to on, Cut switch to on, Stick full positive

Cut to on means in "motor on" position. Others make no sense in thi context above ;-)

Quote:

So we do need throttle curve in bank 2 & 3? using macrocell??. Can we just put a number, let say 1750 for bank 2 and 1900 for bank 3?since I already installed rpm sensor (magnet) and it reads well.

You can - but i am afraid the default throllte curve is behind made for nuitros. And knowing from Pahl Turbines - they have a different curve ...

The gov works always later as a curve - so the curve has to fit roughly to the rpm/collective. Especially on a turbine with the laggy behaviour.

It is just like driving a car in continious speed with "seeing" upcoming hills/valleys and "blind" only by wathching the speed display.

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

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Hi,
Has setup the ECU as per your reference. still haven't had time to test it out, even to start it. This saturday when the weather is good try to bring her to the field.

A question here, I set bank 1 as a linear curve with lowest point is 115 (to get 2% of throttle idle), bank 2 & 3 as a v-curve. bank 2 would be 75-74-74-73-74-74-75 and bank 3 85-84-84-83-84-84-85. when I switch from idle, it takes me 11 seconds to get to 75% (bank 2). But when I switch back to bank 1 is instantanuous, immediately back to 2%. Is it normal?

Once more, can you do another version of setting this governor by putting the rpm demand, not by putting v-curve?so I can do experiments which is best for my turbine. This one I can be more easily to adjust rpm just by inputting rpm demand.

Thank you

Quote:

when I switch from idle, it takes me 11 seconds to get to 75% (bank 2). But when I switch back to bank 1 is instantanuous, immediately back to 2%. Is it normal?

Yes.

Quote:

Once more, can you do another version of setting this governor by putting the rpm demand, not by putting v-curve?so I can do experiments which is best for my turbine. This one I can be more easily to adjust rpm just by inputting rpm demand.

No Problem. If the turbine internal gov is good enough (as on a Jet cat):



My plan would be:

- use the "external Gov" in Vbar
- spoolup must be done automatically by the turbine then, no manual throttle curve!
- cut switch is not needed / available
- set up the ECU to Auto-Start (Page 12) Kero or Gas
- install a RPM sensor on the main shaft for the VGov for displaying RPM
- enable VBar external gov
- assign a idle (in Flight panel for AR, we use it as idle then) value of 15%
- assign 100% throttle (Flight panel) for each bank (teach in)

Teach in - see Page 7:

- Motor switch to on
- teach Stick Up Trim Up (Image 1)

- Motor switch to on
- teach Stick down, Trim down (image 2)

- Motor to on, then toggle to AR(Idle) - so this value is active
- teach Stick down, trim up (image 3)

- assign xyz% throttle (Flight panel) for each bank representing your RPM request for the ECU

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

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1 mal bearbeitet. Zuletzt am 27.05.2020 06:38 von RV.

Hi,
That's sounds very easy setting, will try it.
So when I teach ECU, every bank has 100% throttle and after succeeded in teaching ECU, then I change throttle % for each bank that representing RPM request for the ECU. Is that correct?

Yes, this is the way to go.

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

Für Posts und Antworten bitte einen PC und eine richtige Taststaur benutzen sowie alle Fragen vollständig abarbeiten. Nehmt Euch Zeit, beantwortet Rückfragen in Ruhe und vollständig.
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