Neo flashed red and wraning message on vcontrol

I'm loosing my tail control intermittently two times it caused me to crash. The first time was probably like 20 flights ago. I checked the log then and there was nothing. So this time the same thing nothing in the log. See log 4/18/20. It's one long flight because I don't shut it off when refueling. If you look at the end of that long nothing there.

So when I was working on it on my bench I had only one power wire plugged in and the tail servo only. I was working the tail servo really hard and all of sudden the Neo LED went red and I got a warning on vcontrol that said to contact Mikado and audible beep. See log 4/19/20 4:18 it has watchdog and 16:18:04;3;Ambiguous Value on Tail RC Channel at Init.

After that I was not able to get it to happen again

I pulled the power wires off and inspected them and did not find any problems with them. I have 2 power wires going into Neo Im flying synergy N7 gasser conversion. My power supply is a 2 cell lipo

Quote:

See log 4/19/20 4:18 it has watchdog and 16:18:04;3;Ambiguous Value on Tail RC Channel at Init.

A watchdog is usually given when the rc power has a short brownout (prevents from mid air failure in this case, we restart with last calibration). So the question is here - did you plug in the NEO before for a short time (no log genrated, too less time)?

Anyway - please let us have a look at this device in our service to be safe. Therefore create a service request by clicking on the service icon at this device in your list here.

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

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Hi,

That log 00488 starts with

VBar Start -- Synergy Gas -- 19.04.2020 -- 16:17:54
16:17:54;3;Reset Reason: Watchdog
16:17:55;2;Bank 1 Loaded
[...]

but the previous log is from the day before, so I'd guess that automatic restart was caused by something during power up, a spark when connecting the power supply or something.

By the way, we strongly recommend shutting down/power cycling the VBar between flights, the purpose is to re-initialize the sensors, to avoid drift.

[...]
16:18:04;2;Calibration Finished
16:18:04;3;Ambiguous Value on Tail RC Channel at Init
[...]

directly after the init (actually 10 seconds after power on) means that the tail r/c channel signal was not at center or noisy. Unusual for a VBar Control at rest, of course not if you were doing something (e.g. pull back the collective stick and thereby move the tail axis, for example).
This error message is one which causes the VBar to flash red, twitch the swash plate 30 times and warn on the display, because it's safety-relevant: if you initialized with a function off center, all kinds of (bad) things can happen.

A _guess_ would be that you switched on that day, did not wait for the init to complete, started to wiggle the tail stick—and the VBar told you not-to, in it's own words

Do you also fly other models with the same radio? Any issues there?
That info would help deciding if the radio is suspect or not.

At which time did this start? Any changes before, or crashes, anything which could explain it or hint to an explanation?

What serial no. is it (the NEO)? Can't tell from the radio's log files.

I can't seem to find any suspect entries in all the logs you sent, just in 00488 from yesterday.

On thing which could shed more light: you could connect the VBar NEO to a computer and read it's internal log from there.
This _might_ contain more information, although in this case I doubt it, there is no evidence in the logs that there was a loss of connection (and hence truncated log via telemetry, which does not contain all the info which might have been there).

Sorry that I can not yet pinpoint anything to look out for :/

Cheers

Eddi

Born to fly ...
forced to work.

I think I caused the watchdog fault and the Ambiguous Value on Tail RC Channel at Init. I was checking to see how strong the tail servo holding force was after I powered up Neo on the bench so I was forcing the tail servo back.

I do fly a goblin 500 with this radio with out any problems but my goblin 500 has ben down for the past week because I sent the servos out for repair.

So the first time I crashed the heli after repairing it the tail servo was not working and making noise. So I replaced it with another futaba BLS276SV and then it was working fine. I don't remember how many flights after that I lost my tail and it caused me to crash again. I would guess like 20 flights or so. So I rebuilt the heli could not find anything wrong with the tail or any logs that there was any thing wrong with the tail so I just hovered it for like 2 flights and stared to get confident that it was ok and started flying it again. After about another 20 flights I lost the tail and crashed it again. Same thing no logs that indicate anything wrong with the tail log 4/18/20. So it seems like after the first crash with the heli and after replacing the tail servo I stared to loose my tail intermittently.

So just to see what would happen I plugged in my old tail servo and it was working ok no more noise or anything.

SN is 20027178

I don't know how to get the log out of Neo. If you need me to due that please let me know how.

Thanks for the help so

Hi again,

cant't tell if the log from the unit itself would tell us something, to be honest.

To retrieve it, you would want to

. install the VBar NEO Software (probably already done)
. install the driver manually (probably not ...)
. download the key file from vstabi.info/devices and move it to the program folder

Doing that, and if you need much time because it doesn't work as advertised, first (computers tend to do such things ), you could overwrite what's of interest ...

Your unit is 2nd hand and was registered by you in 10/2019, has no record with us so far (always good to know).

Say, if you wiggle the connectors on the ground, while moving the tail stick, do you notice anyhthig strange, e.g. the servo becoming limp or jumpy?

One (of quite many) explanation(s) could be a bad soldering joint, where the pin header board meets the main board. Cause could be a shock impact earlier, crash, whatever. I doubt it's a software or setup thing, and since there are no other tell tale entries in all the logs you sent, I doubt a more general or severe issue.

_But_ I second Rainer's answer above, if in doubt, better send it in for a check-up, no need to risk anything on a suspect unit (same goes of course for other components on the model, but I can only speak of the VBar )

Cheers

Eddi

Born to fly ...
forced to work.

Ok thanks

I tried the wiggle test can't get anything to happen. I also just removed the servo wire exciton that runs from neo to tail servo no problem was found with the wire. I'm replacing it anyway.

I'm going to send the neo in for service but do you think I should replace the tail servo again? So far its about 300 to 400 per crash. What do you think?



1 mal bearbeitet. Zuletzt am 20.04.2020 17:42 von joecass.

Hi Joe,

tbh, one crash can do a servo, or it survives many, there is no 'standard crash'. I found bad servos by holding the servo arm with a finger, then trying to move it all the way, from the radio. In general, you can hardly hold a current digital (especially HV) servo that way, so take care as not to pinch your fingers.

Sometimes, I found the servo to loose force at a certain position, where I could easily hold it or push it back.
A servo tester imo can not check for such behavior, and in those cases, it was not caused by a gear set gone bad, must have been something electrical.

So ... better safe'n sorry, I guess.

Best,

Eddi

Born to fly ...
forced to work.

Ok thank you for that info
So I can push back both tail servo when plugged into Neo. So I plugged one of my cyclic servos into the tail channel on the Neo and that hold really well. So I have 2 bad tail servos. I'm not going to sent the neo in for service as I'm very confident that a new tail servo will fix it.

Thanks for the help

Hi Joe,

no worries. I have just closed your service request without action.

Cheers

Eddi

Born to fly ...
forced to work.

So I put on 15 flights and crashed again. This time I lost the tail and I think all cyclic servos. The tail servo is brand new and the exciton wire was replaced. Also nothing in the flight log not even extreme vibration when it hit the ground kind of weird.

Hi John,

the log from May 1st, is it the one? It ends just so, as if the VBar was switched off/the power supply was taken away, while the logs before seem to have the expected entries like motor off, maybe an autorotation, landing with a bounce, spool down on the ground, for example—the usual you'd expect.

In a crash, I'd expect sensors out of range or at lease particular vibration entries or cyclic ring entries, together with the usual switch actuations (emergency motor off/throttle cut). You're right, it's weird if they are missing.

One explanation is a sudden loss of electrical power, an other would be that the back channel was lost, no more telemetry or log data, radio must think the NEO has been switched off. The radio would continue transmitting nonetheless, for safety reasons.

In this last flight, do you recall if the radio was still connected until after the incident, or did it warn connection broken or something?

In such a case, the log from the unit itself could maybe tell us more.

The other logs imo do not contain anything suspicious, by the way, nothing which points to 'you had it coming', not from the NEO's side, not from external side ...

Kind regards

Eddi

Born to fly ...
forced to work.

I remember hitting the throttle hold switch and the radio was not taking. I clicked it like 2 or 3 times because I was in a panic but I remember the radio not saying anything.

Also the engine never dropped in head speed when hitting throttle hold. I think I lost total communication with the neo.

When I went over to the heli on the ground the engine was still revving very high and from impact of the crash the battery was unplugged and came out of the heli.

I plugged a volt meter into the power supply to the neo and wiggle the power wires and I didn’t get any drop in voltage. Should I remove the 2 power wires to inspect them? I have a 2 cell lipo battery that has a plug and a splice that’s soldered to 2 servo wires that power neo.

I also got no power warnings from the radio. I’m going to see if I can figure out how to get the logs directly from Neo. Yes 5/1 was the flight with the crash.



1 mal bearbeitet. Zuletzt am 04.05.2020 13:37 von joecass.

Hi Joe,

OK, that could mean that the model was already without power when you flicked TH _or_ the VBar was in a fail safe but the radio didn't get the message any more. I doubt the fail safe, though, because in this case the VBar would have closed the carb if set up properly, and if still powered (you can try on the bench, use the BMFA fail safe test App to be able to disconnect).

By the way, on a nitro or gasser, you should think about mounting a return spring which closes the carb, in case of a power loss.

Getting the logs from the NEO, install the VBar NEO Software and driver, get the key file keys.sto from www.vstabi.info/devices, move it to the program folder on your computer, then connect the VBar NEO to the computer and power it on.

Try with a different NEO first if possible, only if it works connect the one in question, as not to overwrite much of the log (it's a ring memory after all ...).

Would it be possible that the battery disconnected in flight? If not, I'd for sure check it's wiring (down to the cells ...).

Kind regards

Eddi

Born to fly ...
forced to work.



1 mal bearbeitet. Zuletzt am 04.05.2020 15:43 von Eddi E. aus G..

I have 2 lipo packs that I fly with and the last 2 crashes have been with the same lipo pack. The plug connection is pretty tight but could be a possibility.

So to connect Neo I have to use the 5.3 software? Like the way I would connect a older vbar unit? In the C file I found Vistabi53 and a vcontrol folder what one do I need to drop the key in? and were like the driver folder?

Thanks I'm going to pull the power wires off the heli now

Hi Joe,

Version 6 software, please. It comes automatically if you download and install the VBar Control Manager.
Just the driver needs to be installed separately (Mac, double click, follow the installer, Windows, use Device Manager with unit connected, right click on Properties of Unknown Device, Update Drivers, Search on Computer, point the wizard to the /drivers directory (not deeper), within the program directory.

Check out our video tutorials if needed.

5.3 software is obviously only for legacy 5.3 devices, although the driver is the same – if it's already installed from earlier on, V6 will probably connect right away if the key file is present.

Kind regards

Eddi

Born to fly ...
forced to work.

Ok I attached the neo file.

I think it came unplugged because I have the heli side of the battery connector mounted rigidly to the frame and the vibration is popping it out of the connector. The only thing is that I have done a lot of flights with it not popping off. like 5 tanks of gas. The last one crashed after 1 tank just started the second tank.

Hi Joe,

the log does not reveal more, either because there isn't anything, or because it has been overwritten in the meantime, doing tests on the bench etc.

What you say sounds plausible to me. Vibration can be a b*tch, most of the time you only think about it with regard to sensors, Rescue etc., but in the it affects everything on the model :-/

Then, a small thing different can make a big difference, a bit more strain on a wire, connector maybe not set in all the way, vibration changing with how smoothly the engine is running at a given time, or with your flying.

Fingers crossed that you found it—there's only one way to find out

Cheers

Eddi

Born to fly ...
forced to work.

So I got it back in the air. On the 5th flight I lost the tail again this time I was able to hit throttle hold and auto down into some high brush. So it did lower engine speed. When I got the heli out of the brush it was still powered up and the tail was moving ok. The battery did not come unplugged. I attached log file

I got it fixed. The TT they sent me was missed bagged and was to short.

Ups! I would never have thought about something like this!

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

Für Posts und Antworten bitte einen PC und eine richtige Taststaur benutzen sowie alle Fragen vollständig abarbeiten. Nehmt Euch Zeit, beantwortet Rückfragen in Ruhe und vollständig.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Für Einzelkommunikation bitte ausschließlich Email verwenden! - PN, Messenger, Chat usw. werden nicht bearbeitet.
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