VBt with Helijive 120 HV

Hi, I have been out of hobby for 10+ years.

I am trying to setup my Logo 600SX with my old Helijive 120 HV (not pro version) and vbar control touch radio. I would like to set up with program mode 5 which is kontronik gov with bailout enabled. I could do this and previously had it working percfect with vbar classic radio.

I just can't get the jive to be in program mode when moving throttle stick to high position.

I tried in setup to enable direct stick input but when I disconnect the battery the vbc goes back to original screen and doesn't output the stick like it needs to.

I really don't want to buy another ESC if I can help it.

Please help.

Quote:

I tried in setup to enable direct stick input but when I disconnect the battery the vbc goes back to original screen and doesn't output the stick like it needs to.

Nope - this works. You just need to keep the panel open while disconnecting and NOT close the warning on reconnect.


BTW: Better use a up-to-date ESC like a YGE, Scorpion or HW V5 instead of this old relict ... there have been decades of developement in between. E.g., full VGov support, full telemetry and setup through VBC - no stick programming anymore.

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

Für Posts und Antworten bitte einen PC und eine richtige Taststaur benutzen sowie alle Fragen vollständig abarbeiten. Nehmt Euch Zeit, beantwortet Rückfragen in Ruhe und vollständig.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Für Einzelkommunikation bitte ausschließlich Email verwenden! - PN, Messenger, Chat usw. werden nicht bearbeitet.
For single user communication please send a email only! PM, Messenger, Chat etc. won't be read.

Thanks Rainer for the reply.

I tried tonight and was able to program mode 4 but can't program mode 5 (internal jive gov with bailout) as it needs the telephone ring sound which only happens after seeing 20% throttle. I couldn't find a way to do this. I have Motor run / motor idle / and motor off on left hand 3 position switch. It could only enter calibration mode in throttle idle position of that switch and so there for I couldn't flick the switch to a 20% throttle output position that I could previously on the Vbar classic radio.

I have had many Kontronik ESC's on lots of models for 1000's of flights and never a single failure. I could never out fly the governor and they just worked perfectly every single time. I have had other brands fail but never a kontronik.

I know old school tech and many refinements of ESC's and servo's and probably motors etc.. over the years since I left flying but I didn't want to come back into the hobby to have to spend $600+ AUD on a new ESC for one heli when I have multiple in my fleet to upgrade as well (and that's if I can actually find one instock in Australia) when the last time I flew this heli it was flawless as it had been for 100's of flights prior on these electronics. The addition was a neo vbar and a vbar touch over the classic I last flew it on.

I still have

2 x logo 600sx on kontronik helijive
1 x logo 600se on kontronik helijive
1 x logo 550sx on oldest version YGE 90A LV without telemetry.

Too big of a cost for me to upgrade when they worked 100% for 100's of flights on each setup prior to changing from vbar classic to vbar touch.

Okay - does it really need to learn the 20% - the later ones do not.

There is a way probably ... all you need is a Macrocell:

Disconnect Master, keep Slave connected (RC Power but no signal)
At ESC Macrocell set a 3-level driven by your switch you want to use.
Set lower to -75, center to -45 up to 75% (75% on MC is 100% later for the ESC in normal operation w/o the trim reserve)
turn to off, plug in Master
Program it - but be careful, remove blades before! - There is no safety here ...

Afterwards set the MC to normal operation back.

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

Für Posts und Antworten bitte einen PC und eine richtige Taststaur benutzen sowie alle Fragen vollständig abarbeiten. Nehmt Euch Zeit, beantwortet Rückfragen in Ruhe und vollständig.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Für Einzelkommunikation bitte ausschließlich Email verwenden! - PN, Messenger, Chat usw. werden nicht bearbeitet.
For single user communication please send a email only! PM, Messenger, Chat etc. won't be read.

Thank you for the reply Rainer.

In previous Vbar classic I would use the programming jive esc mode to collective stick to set high and low then push the switch for motor idle which had a value of 20%. That function isn't available now with the change to vbar touch and modern ESC's.

If I could use the throttle switch in the motor run position with output to collective stick and then be able to push the switch to the motor idle position it would work how I need it (it's already a 20% value). I can't change to the motor run position for using collective programming (I guess safety feature) as it alarms at me and makes me have to use the motor idle center position. Other way it could work is if I could program the throttle off position to be a value of 20% instead of 0% or another option would be to be able to program a different switch to see throttle 20%.

I need achieve the ESC to see via stick 0 then 100 and then 20 by a switch.

If I am reading correctly you are saying that I should be able to use MC to change the values of the throttle 3 position switch to allow me to get 0% then 100% and then 20% values when I press the switch to the lowest position?

Hopefully this would mean the Jive isn't smart enough to need a stick input rather it needs a 0 - 100 value and then for bailout a 20 value.

Programming information from Kontronik.

This explains what I am trying to achieve and how I should try and get there:

7.11 Autorotation (Bail-out)
The autorotation allows the motor to spool up in a
shorter time to higher RPM. This allows for abrupt
interception maneuvers. The spool up time in
autorotation mode is depended on the set RPM
spool up time and is 1/6 of this value. If a general
spool up time of 12 seconds is set, in autorotation
mode the spool up time is now 3 seconds.
Autorotation has to be activated via PROGDISC –
HELI JIVE Card and “Full throttle”, “Motor-Off” and
“Brake” positions have to be set. The percentage
throttle value can be set via throttle.
For programming autorotation please follow the
procedure as described:
Program 3 switch positions to your TX (1: 0%=
“motor off”, 2: 100%= “full throttle”, 3: 15-20%=
Autorotation position). Check on your TX monitor
whether the respective percentages are valid.
Connect battery to HELI JIVE and wait for acoustic
signals (2 seconds). Unplug Jumper from ESC and
wait for mode tones (mode 1: one tone, mode 2:
two tones…mode 8: eight tones). Wait for desired
mode and move throttle to full throttle position.
After confirmation signal (3 tones) move throttle to
AR position. The HELI JIVE confirms AR position
(3 tones). Finally, disconnect battery.
Should the bail-out maneuver be stopped and the
motor is switched on again, the HELI JIE returns to
the preset RPM in quick spool up. If the switch
remains in autorotation position for more than 12
seconds soft start of the motor is reactivated. Due
to security considerations the quick spool up will
also be deactivated for the next one spool up, if the
throttle is in Motor-Off position for more than 15
seconds. The autorotation bail-out is no individual
mode and can be activated in modes 2, 3, 4, 5,6.

Just try my previous Post.

In general once teached in with a VBC there is no need to redo on a VBC change. Also not with a VBar change.

Anyway ... if this post above won't help ... I an sorry, but we keep focus on ESC with integrated Telemetry since the first Scorpion ESC came out. Here we have setup with VBC.

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

Für Posts und Antworten bitte einen PC und eine richtige Taststaur benutzen sowie alle Fragen vollständig abarbeiten. Nehmt Euch Zeit, beantwortet Rückfragen in Ruhe und vollständig.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Für Einzelkommunikation bitte ausschließlich Email verwenden! - PN, Messenger, Chat usw. werden nicht bearbeitet.
For single user communication please send a email only! PM, Messenger, Chat etc. won't be read.

Thanks Rainer I will try your suggestion tonight.

Some of my other models that I swapped from VBC to VBCt I didn't do a full brand new model setup, I just transferred to NEO and then checked the setup and corrected the information that I needed to. These models seem to work without me needing to re-program the ESC.

If your above suggestion doesn't work would it be possible that I bind my NEO to the old VBC radio, run the jive wizard and program then re-bind to the VBCt radio?

Yes - of course.

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

Für Posts und Antworten bitte einen PC und eine richtige Taststaur benutzen sowie alle Fragen vollständig abarbeiten. Nehmt Euch Zeit, beantwortet Rückfragen in Ruhe und vollständig.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Für Einzelkommunikation bitte ausschließlich Email verwenden! - PN, Messenger, Chat usw. werden nicht bearbeitet.
For single user communication please send a email only! PM, Messenger, Chat etc. won't be read.

Hi,

fun fact: the Wizard on Classic doesn't do any magic, it just guides you through the basic steps with brief instructions.

With direct stick control, the throttle channels is linked to the ESC output exactly the same way, on Classic and on Touch.

If a Kontronik doesn't react as expected, it's always a good idea to program mode 1 (auto), which also does a factory reset.
Then, next iteration, program mode 4 (heli) and/or other (mode/options).

Motor (AR) Idle 20 % can be (must be) set manually, in Flight Parameters, Governor, if you want to use the ESC's bailout feature.
It defaults to 10 %.

Kind regards

Eddi

Born to fly ...
forced to work.

I got it to work on the bench without blades. So in theory it should work with blades.

I reset mode 1, the mode 4 witch collective stick mode.

I plugged in the progdisk again, set the autorotation to on again. Then set AR on value with progdisk to the motor idle position on progdisk and it works.

Hi,

sounds good.

W | w/o blades, the main difference is, if you run the drive w/o noticeable load, rpm will very likely overshoot, then either settle at the requested value, or even remain too high. If you want to assess/measure the actual head speed, it's more accurate, if not only possible, w/ blades, w/ load.

Also ESCs which learn voltage-rpm-ratios for governor store modes usually only can do that w/ load.

Kind regards

Eddi

Born to fly ...
forced to work.