Decreasing transmitter duel rates with neo?

Hello

I’m trying to set up a vbar neo with my Hiribo Freya flybarless. I want to know if I can lower the duel rates on my transmitter as I’m having to decrease the cyclic setting way too low in the vbar neo setting. Can I do this?

There is no "oldschool" DR. You need to lower the agility if needed.

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

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But there is too much travel on my servos. Agility won’t change this.

Hi,

please see if you can change the geometry of the linkages. It makes little sense to compensate for constructional shortcomings by limiting the actuators/servos no matter where.

Dual rate in the radio only limits the input (maximum requested roll or flip rate, as if you move the stick like only 70 % of it's overall travel), but the VBar will always use the very limits you set/calibrate for in the cyclic panel.

If there is nothing more you can do mechanically, you can tighten the cyclic limiter ring (Pro version required, expert parameter), but mind that below 70-71 (85 is default), you start limiting the overall agility.

To check for binding, set collective to 50 % respectively (+/– 6° out of +/– 12° for example) and move the cyclic inputs all around.
If nothing binds then, it will be OK in flight, the control loop limits itself considerably once there is sensor feedback, read: once the model is freely moving in the air.

Kind regards

Eddi

Born to fly ...
forced to work.

There’s no way I can change the mechanics any more then I have already.

Here is a video where duel rates are untouched. Vbar neo cyclic set to 85 and collective at 50%. The swash drops when at all angles when clucking is full. It’s even mor dramatic when collective is 100%.

I can’t change anything else on the mechanical side can I? Is this normal behaviour?

Hi,

what you see is part of the control loop, there are all kinds of gizmos active which can only live out if the model is free in the air and the VBar has sensor feedback. You can only monitor the true swash plate movement if in Setup, in the PC Software or in the Setup Wizard, in VBar Control.

If nothing binds, all is well. Here's something about geometry.

The flybarless conversion on your model is, to be honest, not well conceived (by design).
The bell cranks seem to have a gain of like 1:1.6 (servo travel:swash plate stroke), which was necessary in the past where the collective pitch compensator and flybar levers were taking out the gain again, but which is counter-productive now. You have to take out the built-in mechanical gain electronically, which leaves the servos kind of in wrong gear. 100 % of travel : 1.6 = 62.5 (it's not quite the 50 you have to adjust for, but that's because of the overall geometry at the 8° we calibrate for).

To get a better collective resolution, you could try and move the ball links in, on the servo arm (you have to put up with some binding in the push/pull, then, but that's most probably negligible, or you could also drop the push or the pull, leaving only one link connected). There seems to be no way to exchange the bell cranks for ones without a ratio (1:1 input : output).

Cyclic with 85 would be OK.

But in the end, even with 50 collective the model will fly, and most probably well enough, it's just that you could expect more from the VBar's performance if the servos could breathe more freely.

By the way, adjustable servos would not help either. You would just trade one electronic limitation for the other, make the numbers look better, since servos usually are designed/geared for their quasi-standard travel of like +/– 45°-60°. Electronics can never beat physics ... and it's not a feature of the VBar NEO but of all systems, even if you would fly without stabilization, using a regular receiver, the limitation would be necessary, and the result/performance would be equally inferior than if the geometry was better.

Kind regards

Eddi

Born to fly ...
forced to work.



1 mal bearbeitet. Zuletzt am 03.07.2019 09:19 von Eddi E. aus G..

Thanks for your speedy reply Eddi. I seriously feel like I should just take all of the electrics and the engine out and put it into another frame. Im no 3D flyer so hoping me reducing the cylic electronically to the point where there is no effect shown in the video will be ok.

Hi again,

if nothing binds at the test as described above, all should be well.
What you see at the swash plate is just normal, as already said, the control loop showing things which you can not easily interpret.

Did you already fly the machine? I mean, it's not the first FBL Freya and there are no known issues but the fact that the geometry is not state of the art, for FBL at least.

Kind regards

Eddi

Born to fly ...
forced to work.

Yes I’ve already flown the machine couple of years ago. I’ve been doing some work on it and just going through the setup again. I’ve never had the swash bind which I find strange...(it always has that effect in the video) my logo 550 easily binds if cyclic settings/travel are set too high.

Hi,

well, with regard to binding (enough room for all the motion), there seems to be no issue. Which is good.

I'm curious how you find it, once you fly it again.

Kind regards

Eddi

Born to fly ...
forced to work.