Why i need power off/power on NEO to get it working with PC software?

I need to run PC sw at first, then connect usb cable to NEO and after that power on NEO. Why?

If i will connect usb cable to already powered NEO, PC sw will recognize unit (green USB icon) , but it will not talk to it (red no connection icon) . This is very annoying, because if i want to tune parameters on field, i must always power off model before tuning. This way i power off model few times on one battery, and esc will get confused about number of battery cells, so rpms on next startup will differ. Telemetry (battery mAh counter) will not work as expected because of this too.

Old VStabi's worked as expected ... everytime you connect unit, it will simply work with PC sw.



2 mal bearbeitet. Zuletzt am 19.01.2016 11:01 von swalko.

This usually is not required. It shall be possible to connect at any time without restarting or power cycling.
I sometimes get problems to get a USB Connection on some constellations. In this cases its enough to unplug and plug in USB again to make it work. So no need to power cycle the model.

The Difference to the old versions is, that the Controller handles USB internally. The old devices did have a separate USB chip, that was powered by USB and not by the Heli, so it behaves different.

so long ... Uli
http://www.vstabi.de

Now i tested it again on my macbook pro and it is still same. Need to power off/on while usb is connected and sw running. Otherwise i will not see initialization screen and i get green usb icon and red no connection icon. I tried it native on Mac OS X, virtualised Windows XP and native Windows 7. I tried too to use original and non-original cables, different usb ports ...

Have you any idea? Problem with key verification routine?



4 mal bearbeitet. Zuletzt am 20.01.2016 10:30 von swalko.

All,

I am having also problems to connect the Neo with my PC, but that wasn't from day one; the problem started after approx. 20 successful connections. See my thread (Belgo) from the day before yesterday.
I haven't yet tried the trick to power up after the USB cable is connected to the Neo.

Regards,

Belgo

Hi Belgo,

so try it with described procedure and let us know here. Some details of our problems looks to be similar. I think that i have this problem from beginning. My NEO fw is 6.1.31 , PC SW 6.1.7 .



1 mal bearbeitet. Zuletzt am 20.01.2016 10:45 von swalko.

Hi Swalko,

I will try your trick this evening when I am back home. I would be glad if I could simply resolve it like that :-)

I have been working with the NEO for setting up my TDR II for more than a week; when I started there was no issue at all.
I uploaded the TDR file to deactivate the geometry correction, I set up the servo center points whilst servo's were connected to the Neo in the set up program and did all other set up steps up till last WE when I had to set up the tail servo. Then the problem started.
The day before yesterday I downloaded a new Keys store file and everything connected again to both PC and laptop. Yesterday, again I could not connect, so I did the same trick and hurrey it worked... but not for long. After I pulled out the USB cable and plugged it back in the problem re occurred. However this time the trick no longer worked.

I tried other USB cables, tried with a Surface tablet Windows 8 etc.... In case your trick doesn't work I no longer know what to do.
I have 2 full size and 4 min V stabi and never had anything like this. Obviously I have also checked a mini Vstabi and it connects time after time.

Very annoying.

Regards,

Belgo

Now i tested it on different computer (macbook air) with freshly installed java and NEO software. I think that someone may really look at this problem. Right after installation and on first power on it worked without correct procedure. After that it worked for about 4 usb cable disconnects/connections, but then it stopped working and from then i need to power off/power on NEO with running PC sw and plugged usb cable.
Is not there a some kind of protection trigger in NEO fw that will kick in?



1 mal bearbeitet. Zuletzt am 20.01.2016 16:34 von swalko.

Hi Swalko,

I just posted my findings in my thread.
The Neo only connects when powered up as last action, i.e. same as with you.

Regards,

Belgo

I think that definately something is not working as it should work. To me it seems like in NEO fw is some kind of protection and it will get triggered after few connections, it remember keys/computer used for authorisation and dont allow another connection without power off. Should you test it on another computer if it will work for a while?



1 mal bearbeitet. Zuletzt am 20.01.2016 22:12 von swalko.

I have tried on a PC with windows 7 and a laptop windows XP. Tomorrow I will try my Surface Pro Tablet with windows 8.

What I don't understand is that, in my case, the Neo works ok for a while and then suddenly it doesn't connect anymore and I have to try al kind of tricks to get it to connect again.

Regards,

Belgo

If you connect it by correct procedure, it will connect everytime. Our problem seems to be same. My NEO worked yesterday on new computer for a while (about 3 - 4 cable connections) without any issues, after that no more connection without correct procedure was possible. For me it seems that NEO have some kind of security trigger in FW and it will get kicked in. It seems that NEO remember connected computer/s, so if i try to use different OS on same machine, problem persist. But if i try "new" computer it will work for a while, until trigger will get kicked in. Probably there is a different key validation routine for already powered NEO and booting NEO. So we are able to connect NEO with correct procedure.

Of course I could be wrong, but i think that it is a software problem, so it is fixable.



3 mal bearbeitet. Zuletzt am 21.01.2016 09:02 von swalko.

Hi Swalko,

I think you have a point there.
Many thanks for helping to understand the issue and finding a preliminary solution.

Regards,

Belgo

Hi Swalko,

I think you have a point there.

Thanks for hinting a preliminary solution.

Regards,

Belgo

There is no protection of this type built in somwhere. But if you watch this behaviour we will try to reproduce and understand whats going on. On my testsytsems i cannot see this effect (Win7 and Win10), so i assume some sort of inteference with USB.
Maybe it helps if we can collect some more data about the systems used, and the timeframe when it happens. How does it look? Is the USB Green, or not?

so long ... Uli
http://www.vstabi.de

Hi Uli,

yes, USB icon is green after every connection of NEO and doesnt depend on used connection procedure. I tried too to restart computer, and it didnt helped, so i deducted that NEO "remember" something.

My summary:

1.) After first connection to "new" computer it work for a few disconnects/connections without using described connection procedure.
2.) After 3 - 4 connections it stop working and connection is only possible after using correct procedure.
3.) Computer restart dont help. Using other OS on same computer dont help.
4.) From time to time, but only sporadically, after more usb connections/disconnects i get green icon connection in NEO sw, but data (settings, voltage, ... ) are not loaded from unit. So only connection icon got green, but there is no communication between sw and NEO.
5.) Both computers was macbook's, but i dont have a working PC for testing.

If you have any idea on tests that you want to try i am available. I dont have problem with system things.



1 mal bearbeitet. Zuletzt am 21.01.2016 13:01 von swalko.

Another findings:

1.) NEO connected with correct procedure, working correctly. NEO still connected to computer, quit NEO sw, run it again and it will not talk with NEO ... USB icon green.
2.) NEO connected to PC, power on, start PC sw, working fine.
3.) NEO disconnected from PC, power on, start PC sw, connect to PC ... no communication, USB icon green.

So it seems critical to have NEO connected to PC before NEO power on. If PC sw is running doesnt matter.



4 mal bearbeitet. Zuletzt am 21.01.2016 21:22 von swalko.

Now i tried connect NEO to computer thru usb hub. It worked same way like when i connected NEO to "new" computer. 3 - 5 connections/disconnects without any issues and after that connection is only possible using correct procedure. It really seems like NEO remember something.

Ok, so USB is always green? How often do you plug/inplog, and do you let some time in between? Ah, and do you restart the APP in between?

NEO is definitly *not* storing anything - but - afaik Windows is doing this. So it may be an effect, that windows is caching the driver so it does not get initialized the same way always.
Since i cannot reproduce this, it may have to do with the drivers settings.

Can you please try switching all powersavoing settings for the USB Port off? I rememer a similar effect on an digital camera.

so long ... Uli
http://www.vstabi.de



1 mal bearbeitet. Zuletzt am 25.01.2016 10:37 von ulrich.

Yes, usb icon is green everytime and it not depend on connection procedure.

As i already wrote, behavior is same on all tested OS (OS X, Windows 7, virtualised Windows XP), so probably no driver issue . If it stop working after few connections/disconnects under one OS, it will not work too under other OS on same computer.

I tested intervals from few seconds up to about one minute between connections ... same.
I tried to restart app too ... same.
I tested probably all possible configurations. On "new" computer it work for 3 - 4 connections, after that only with correct procedure.

I checked OS X console messages and these are same for situation when it work and when it doesnt work.

I believe you that NEO is not storing anything, but definitely there must be something wrong, because non NEO Vbars works fine on same computer.

I will play with usb power saving, but as i wrote before, non NEO VBars works fine.

NEO in automatic update mode (boot plug connected) works without issues. I should connect/disconnect NEO how much time i want and VBar Control Manager will find unit everytime. So i dont believe that there is something wrong with tested computers or drivers settings.

If you have PC SW with debugging messages i should run it and send you output.



2 mal bearbeitet. Zuletzt am 26.01.2016 07:33 von swalko.

I am just looking into it, but i cannot see the error On my Dev Mashines, it always works if plugged in switched on or not, and pc sw started or not. All works... I could reproduce it on another pc, but only after plugging/unplugging several times it happens occasionally, never always. So its very hard to look into. It seems to be a timing issue with USB. The effect i see is, that there is no data transmission on USB in this case, even if the driver has been opened (green USB Logo).

The old units do have different Chips, and the boot mode is a different driver on Windows side, so thats another story.

so long ... Uli
http://www.vstabi.de