Step By Step Tuning Procedure

Good day everyone

I would like to know if my step by step procedure to fine tune a helicopter is good

First i go at the field on a clear day and barely with no wind

-i do the step by step procedure of the autotrim ( Mainrotor menu )features to make sure the heli is hovering at is best ,

-Personal preferences i dialed maximum number on Agility and Style in Mainrotor menu

-I enter 0 for governor gain and start increasing Tail Gain in Fast Forward Flight until my tail start to wag then i dropped by 5 the number in Tail Gain

-I restore default governor gain

-I increase MainRotor Gain until my head start oscillating when i doing flips or aileron move , then decrease the value by 5

-After i increase Governor Gain in FFF until i hear the governor over speed then decrease the value by 5

Thanks again for helping me out

Hi
Can someone confirm that i'm doing the right procedure or can someone point me out to a reference on the internet ( guide , video etc...)
I read all the post on this forum ( best way to learn everything on V-control ) but did not found nothing on fine tuning your heli
at the field
On a other note after reading all the post i would like to thank Rainer Vetter for helping everyone out, you are the superman of this industry !!!!!
Thank you

"Someone" is here ;-)

I would do it in a different order - and also tweak the tail torque precompensation together with the gov collective adds ;-)

I would do this on the "most flown" HS and copy afterwards to the others.

Best preconditions are:

- blades (fold method) are at 0deg in setup (locked) position
- Cyclic Ring set up as best in hover collective point
- tail throws set in useful ranges
- paddle sim and pitch pump are zeroed
- style is at 70...100
- useful gear/kv/cell count setup for the target RPM


Step 1 - Basic Gov settings:

- Gov Gain to 0
- Gov I to 0
- Spoolup at zero collective
- dial in basic throttle unless HS matches
- go to a hover, dial in collective add unless HS will be kept under hover too
- do a medium climb, check hs, possibly add some collective add again
- set cyclic add to 1/3 of collective add
- turn back gov gain and Integral


Step 2 - Basic Tail together with Gov:

- lower tail gain (e.g. to 40)
- hover and do medium climbs
- on a CW heli - if nose turns to left in the climbs - increase collective torque precomp in tail
- if it stays approx. - the optimum has been found.
- if it still turns although the precomp is e.g. at 60 - decrease (!) the collective add of the governor (tail is overloaded by too hard gov'ing)
- set cyclic precomp to 1/3 of collective precomp


Step 3 - Tail gain:

- just increase ad needed to hold the tail. The VBars have a internal gain calculation depending on the flight situation to avoid oscillations - e.g. in fast flight.
- If the tail holds well - not more gain needed

Step 4 - Elevator Precomp:

- lower main rotor gain to 30-40 (approx 1/2 of the usual recommended gain)
- from a hover - start a climbout
- watch the tail boom. If it hangs down first - increase the precomp


All steps below can be done in different order:

Step 5a - Trim flight

- as the tail torque precomp changes the tail "center" - the TF will be done after the steps above to be perfect
- perform the trim flight on a calm day
- lift off, hover hands off for some seconds, repeat a few times
- if a hands off pirouette stays in place - end trim flight

Step 5b - Swash Optimizer:

- dial in the target agility, this resets the cyclic optimizers!
- do some constant rolls and flips in all 4 directions with approx. 50-70% of the stick throw.
- lets say 5-10 each direction will be ok, turn the optimizer off

Step 5c - Tail Optimizers:

- do some pirouettes in each direction
- also some stops (5 each side will be ok)
- turn the optimizer off
- if the stop is a bit softer on one side (due some physics) - increase the stop gain, see if it helps
- if it won't help - lower the tail acceleration which gives a bit softer response but more equal behaviour (optional, lower down to 45 ans less, often used on weak scale tails with 30)

Step 5d - Main Gain:

- increase unless you won't notice changes anymore.
- not critical - so it is possible to keep it at 80 on a usual helicopter

Step 5e - the rest:

- dial in Style as preferred (low = more smack, high = more precise)
- same with paddle sim
- and pitch pump (but - if using this - the tail will show up the limit again ...)


And of course - to be perfect - most of this can be done for each bank.

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

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Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 09/11/2015 11:10PM by RV.

WOW !
Rainer again you saved me , you have no clue how much i appreciate what you do .
I will study your tuning procedure and apply it to all my fleet of heli !!!
Thank you SUPERMAN !

Added Elevator precomp - just to be perfect ...

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

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Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

Für Posts und Antworten bitte einen PC und eine richtige Taststaur benutzen sowie alle Fragen vollständig abarbeiten. Nehmt Euch Zeit, beantwortet Rückfragen in Ruhe und vollständig.
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Hello RV,

what about collective dynamic? How do I adjust it in the sequence above and in the link below?

http://www.vstabi.info/en/node/2043

Thanks and best regards,

Flipper

I never did this - but as always - the tail points you to the limit ;-)

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

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Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

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thanks RV,

but what exactly does collective dynamic do? I understood that raising that value will lead to the tail showing its limit, but what is it for or what does it do?

Thanks very much as always!

Ok . it gives a "kick" extra throttle to the ESC/throttle out depending on the stick acceleration.

You know the "picth pump"? - It is the same, but for the ESC ;-)

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

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Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

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thanks so much as always RV!

Cheers

i followed this tuning procedure last weekend on my 700 and it seems to lack power under full load now. My original setup, i just used the default settings and enabled vbar gov with set headspeed and didnt notice the lack of power under full collective load. In the setup, it says turn gov gain to 0. My vcontrol only allows me to turn it to 10, no lower, in the specific bank. Then I adjusted basic throttle and collective add. Could this be why it lacks power now.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/16/2015 03:57PM by Dirtyburd.

The gain isn't that important - the integral is more important. Did you zero it too?

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

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Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

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I did that and on a hover my heli would be slightly under target headspeed and in a medium climb it would be significantly over target headspeed. Could it be too much collective add?

I had basic throttle at around 70 and collective add at around 60, is it normal to have values this high?

Please tell me a bit more about the heli, components etc.

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

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Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

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Yes, I zeroed integral. I had to do the opposite, I actually had to add collective add a bit to get mine to hold and it still didn't hold completely on medium climbout. It does hold in hover but how much should I add before it is too much collective add for stationary hover. Mine is a Protos Max on 693 blades. Xnova 4530-525 motor

Hello RV,

mine is a stock 550SX V1, YGE 90LV, stock Scorpion motor, Mini Vbar with VBC, Savox servos. Headspeed is 2,100 rpm with the 15T pinion.

Thanks!

OK - this is what i thought after your post. It seem to depend on the resposibility of the ESC and drive train how many add we will need for a climbout. So this may be different at all ;-(

A good point to deal would be a compromise with more preference on the climbout for a 3d pilot - and more preference on the hover for a scale pilot.

And - we expect a basic throttle around 50% to be in a useful range. If you need more - you mab be undergeared, have weak batteries or the motor can't handle the current.

As it is the same motor/ESC on my SE here - i can fly 2000 with a 14t and new, warm batteries. So 2100 should be possible when everything is ok but seem to be on the limit too.

6s*3.5V*1100kV*15t/153t = 2264 hmmm ...


I'll try something later here in the backyard as i am currently also figuring around with those values (but with another goal).

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

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Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/17/2015 07:51AM by RV.

Thanks RV!

let us know how that goes!

Cheers

Well - it ened up in more research ... will come back later.

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

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Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

Für Posts und Antworten bitte einen PC und eine richtige Taststaur benutzen sowie alle Fragen vollständig abarbeiten. Nehmt Euch Zeit, beantwortet Rückfragen in Ruhe und vollständig.
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Hi Guys,

I've also been looking at some detailed tuning on my Logo600, and started on Rainer's process that is outlined above. More on the 600 later. On the weekend, I started with with Gov tuning process. My setup is a Logo600SXV2, Vbar NEO w/ VLink and VControl, U/I Sensor, Hyperion Phase sensor, HeliJive 120HV V13, Kontronik Pyro 700-45 Motor, Radix 600's and Edge 105's. Batteries are 12S 3650's. I'm running the NEO Gov, and currently have headspeed set for 2000.

I tried to complete the following Gov tuning procedure:

Step 1 - Basic Gov settings:
- Gov Gain to 0
- Gov I to 0
- Spoolup at zero collective
- dial in basic throttle unless HS matches
- go to a hover, dial in collective add unless HS will be kept under hover too
- do a medium climb, check hs, possibly add some collective add again
- set cyclic add to 1/3 of collective add
- turn back gov gain and Integral

As stated above, I was only able to get the Gov gain down to a value of 10. I lowered the I gain to 0. With this setup, The head speed would only get up to about 1400 at 0 collective. At this stage the process says "dial in basic throttle unless HS matches", but with NEO gov and specific RPM value/setting (ie. 2000RPM) in the VControl, I don't know what I can change here at this point to get the headspeed up. So I started tweaking the I gain back up, and slowly the head speed started to rise.

Eventually I got back to 30 on the I gain, and the headspeed was again around the 2000 mark. I did the climb out test and the head speed dropped slightly, so I settled at 31 on the I gain, and the head speed was just about spot on (slight overshoot by about 50rpm, if anything).

So I don't think that I actually achieved anything at all, and felt that I am miss understanding the tuning procedure as outlined. Could someone tell me what I interpreted incorrectly in the procedure, or what I am doing wrong here at this step/tuning process..???

Many Thanks....

Mark R



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2016 10:19AM by wizza.

Quote:

I don't know what I can change here at this point to get the headspeed up.

This is the main key value (besides the collective ad) ...

http://vstabi.info/en/node/1679

First Image, value left bottom (Basic Thro.)

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

Für Posts und Antworten bitte einen PC und eine richtige Taststaur benutzen sowie alle Fragen vollständig abarbeiten. Nehmt Euch Zeit, beantwortet Rückfragen in Ruhe und vollständig.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Für Einzelkommunikation bitte ausschließlich Email verwenden! - PN, Messenger, Chat usw. werden nicht bearbeitet.
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Thanks Rainer... Pretty obvious now that you point it out, but hadn't noticed that value there... Guess I wasn't seeing the forest for the trees...

I'll redo the tuning process on the weekend. Cheers for now....

VBC is one of the easiest to finetune your helicopter as you can do it from your transmitter.

Just an idea: How easy it would be even for beginners if you had some kind of fine tunining app with all the instructions what to do and how to test different parameters.

For example: you start the app. System lowers the maingain, goes to collective precomp and tells you to do a climb and observe certain behavior and adjust. when the value is good you would push next and system moves to next parameter.

I can setup my heli without this but this would be excelent value for new pilots maybe us old dogs can also learn something

Anyway thnks for to list of tips Rainer!