Vbar Bank Head Speed Changes - Not Changing

My setup is a Logo 700 with Tribunus 14-200A ESC & Vbar Neo (typical setup). I am using the Vbar Neo as the governor. I have my bank speeds set as follows: Bank 1 - 900, Bank 2 - 1300, Bank 3 - 1700. Note: I don't do any sort of 3D flying at all. I am far more into simple sport scale.

When I flip the bank switch I don't get any change of head speed at all. When I turn the motor on it goes to 930 rpm at mid-stick collective and around 1200 rpm at both high & low stick positions.

Do you have any suggestions as to what I may be doing wrong?

It seems you don't have any load on the system (bench run) - so you see the "V-shape" of the curve behind.

But - in general it should govern when:

- min 600 RPM
- throtle above min limit (!!!! - see gov info panel - LED or see log!)
- RPM signal is there (disconnet telemetry and see if still rpm showing - if not - RPM cable from Scorpion to NEO RPM not connected or wrong polarity) - the GOV needs this, Telemetry would be way too slow.

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

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Hello Rainer,

I verified that the telemetry cable was properly connected from the ESC to the Neo and the polarity is correct. The same conditions repeated (no head speed changes via the bank switch). Would it help if I sent you the log from the Vbar Control? If so, I assume that is something I will have to download from the Vbar Control to my computer after connecting with USB?

Thanks

Nick

I am asking about the RPM cable - NOT the telemetry cable. But - to detect (fallback case) on screen it is needed to disconnect Telemetry.

Did you check RPM Values on screen while Telemetry is disconnected?

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

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Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

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Rainer,

1. I removed the cable from the ESC (Master port) to the Neo (ESC port), checked continuity of all 3 wires in the cable run (good), reinstalled cable, & performed a test run - same issue (no change in head speed with bank switch).

2. I then disconnected the cable between the Slave port on the ESC to the Telemetry port on the Neo, turned the motor on and observed no RPM signal readout on the Vbar Control screen.

3. I plugged the telemetry cable back into the Neo and observed the RPM signal readout on the screen but it was a negative number.

I'm curious if I have things setup correctly in the Model Setup - Governor - Gov Setup: Main Gear, Sensor config, Pinion, Runup limit, Min Throttle. I don't recall setting those numbers but here is what they read:

Main Gear: 175T - LOGO 700 / 800 XX
Sensor config: 5
Pinion: 13
Runup Limit: 3
Min Throttle: 30

Thanks again for your help.

Hello Rainer,

I think the problem has been resolved. The main gear & pinion gear values were incorrect for my Logo 700. I corrected them by verifying the actual tooth count of each gear: 136T main, 13T pinion. I then verified the Main Gear Ratio: 10.46 in the Application setup menu. The bank speeds all track according to their preset values I have input in the main Governor settings.

Thanks again for your help!

Nick

Quote:

2. I then disconnected the cable between the Slave port on the ESC to the Telemetry port on the Neo, turned the motor on and observed no RPM signal readout on the Vbar Control screen.

This is a 100% clear sign thet the seperate RPM Cable from ESC to NEO is not connected or wrong connected.

The display uses the RPM pulse as fallback when the "Normal telemetry" isn't there. If it is 0 now - there is no RPM pulse. And the Gov uses this one to govern - but if no pulse ...

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

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Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

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Hello Rainer,

Thanks for your response. What are your thoughts regarding my latest posting that details observations made after correcting the main & pinion gear teeth count as well as the gear ratio? This & the cable inspections appear to have corrected the situation. Head speed is tracking in accordance with the programmed head speeds.

Nick

Hello Nick,

of course if the gear ratio calculation was wrong, the governor/ESC would probably not operate as expected/properly, too, because the calculation would be off from the actual motor speed and resulting head speed.

O the other hand, thing is, the ESC is outputting RPM twice.
One, real-time, via rpm signal lead. This is used for the governor.
Two, with a reduced frame rate, via telemetry, for logging. This would be too slow for governing the head speed.

The VBar NEO auto-detects if there is an rpm input signal and uses that for the governor.
If not, there is a fallback to the telemetry rpm information, but for display only.
The values shown on the radio are telemetry-style values in any case, transmitted back every 5 ms over the radio link, so they wouldn't look much different anyway.

I am under the impression (like Rainer) that, for whatever reason, we are—or were—on the fallback routine, hence no governing/no head speed change, the governor itself has fallen back onto the underlying throttle v-curve, defined by collective add < cyclic add < basic throttle > cyclic add > collective add.

To check, if you disconnect both RPM and TELE, what do you see?
If you connect only RPM, what do you see?
Loopback-test, if you disconnect _both_ but take a common patch wire to connect any of the servo outputs (e.g. TAIL) to the RPM connector above it, with proper polarity, what do you see then?

But it could also have been a wrong calculation ...

It's always difficult to come to a conclusion if you recommend A and the customer says, I did B and now it works ... so we can never join the dots

Kind regards

Eddi

Born to fly ...
forced to work.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/2022 02:43PM by Eddi E. aus G..

To point on the details ... most customer have the RPM cable in wrong polarity plugged in on the ESC side - so 0 RPM display with RPM only connected. If this is the case like above - check cable plug orientation ... read manual ... plug in as it should ;-)

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

Für Posts und Antworten bitte einen PC und eine richtige Taststaur benutzen sowie alle Fragen vollständig abarbeiten. Nehmt Euch Zeit, beantwortet Rückfragen in Ruhe und vollständig.
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Hey guys,

Here is an update, primarily focusing on the troubleshooting steps spelled out in Eddie's respons:

To check, if you disconnect both RPM and TELE, what do you see?

Response: I see no RPM display on the Vbar Control main screen. The bank speeds do not change at the switch. The throttle seems to have gone to the "fallback routine" (hence no governing/no head speed change) - throttle v-curve, defined by collective add < cyclic add < basic throttle > cyclic add > collective add. This is exactly as described by Eddie. Additionally, I can tell by the sound that the head speed is higher (maybe 1200 RPM estimated) at mid-stick. Noticeably higher than my bank 1 speed that I deliberately set low at 700 RPM.


If you connect only RPM, what do you see?

Response: I see an RPM display on the Vbar Control main screen that is equal to the bank head speeds I've programmed. The bank speeds do change when the switch is flipped (1,2,3).


Loopback-test, if you disconnect _both_ but take a common patch wire to connect any of the servo outputs (e.g. TAIL) to the RPM connector above it, with proper polarity, what do you see then?

Response: I'm not quite sure what is meant by this. Do you want me to plug the tail servo cable into the RPM connector on the Neo or connect a jumper cable from the TAIL on the Neo to the RPM on the Neo?

It appears things are working as they should be. Now I need to set up the Vbar Control to track battery health as I use them. I think I've seen a YouTube video on this somewhere but I need to watch it again since it's been quite a while. I need to refresh myself on how the Vbar Control can assist with this.

Thanks again guys!!
Nick

Hi Nick,

sounds OK.

With the loopback test, I mean indeed a jumper cable (two servo connectors at each end), between one of the servo outputs and the rpm input. Here, you should see a (low) head speed instantly, reflecting the servo pulse divided by pole count and gear ratio.

This would be to check if the rpm signal input is working properly.

—Eddi

Born to fly ...
forced to work.