Logo 200 with M2 Evo tail motor

Hi,

I've upgraded my Logo 200 with M2 Evo tail motor and blades and have issue:

Motor was burned after about 22 flights. Previously, i have used GooSky S2 motors. Both GS motor also burned after about 120-130 flights.

I compared Logo 200 esc with M2 Evo esc and see that is same esc is used for M2 Evo and Logo 200. V04 Heli esc (see attached photos).

Conditions:
M2 Evo motor was not overheated, and stay cool during agressive flights.
GooSky S2 motors was noticeable hot.

Well, seems i need to adjust some parameters of tail motor settings of Neo Mini because stock M2 motor and M2 Evo motor has different KV.

Questions:
What is exactly tail limits for motor tail driven heils? May i need to adjust limits to prevent buring of motors?
May be some another important parameters i need to adjust in the tail settings to make M2 Evo motor works propertly depends on KV?



Edited 9 time(s). Last edit at 05/01/2024 12:57PM by Jock_rst.

Hi,

tail limits mean the end points of the ESC, from motor off (say left limit, minus a couple of points for safety) to full throttle (listen, there is no other indication). Since you can not program the ESC, you need to adjust the tail limits in your VBar, and the settings from the stock setup match the stock ESCs, so normally, there's nothing for you to do.

The limits don't make much of a difference when it comes to burning a motor. The ESC can not output less than off, or more than full throttle ...

Different kV and different tail propeller 'only' mean different rpm or current at the same throttle opening, but the throttle opening is continuously controlled/adjusted by the gyro anyway, so it will (must) always be a) exactly what's required to hold the tail or b) what you input in full right pirouettes (max. full throttle), or when stopping/reversing (also max. full throttle, but the peak current will very likely be higher, with a more powerful motor).
Then, the lesser component will eventually be overloaded and fail, ESC or motor.
Still, the motor needs to be capable of surviving its own power demands, else it's not fit for the job.
And the ESC seems to be.

Bottom line ... you can't easily go easier on the thing with parameters, unless you trade off, e.g. reduce the tail gain (aggressiveness of response, peak current consumption), or yaw rate, stop gains (same), or unless you work on your style of flying ^^

We have next to no complaints about the LOGO 200 in its original configuration, and also not from the ones who e.g. stretched to M2 EVO, or who are using different tail propellers (e.g. copter propellers).

Weird.

Kind regards

Eddi

Born to fly ...
forced to work.

Eddi E. aus G. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> We have next to no complaints about the LOGO 200
> in its original configuration, and also not from
> the ones who e.g. stretched to M2 EVO, or who are
> using different tail propellers (e.g. copter
> propellers).


Thanks Eddie, i will try to adjust some tail parameters. Additional question - is there any chance that firmware contain hard coded timing for tail motor?

Hi,

to be honest, no idea. The ESCs are bought-in parts from OMP, their design, their hardware, their software.
The only difference to stock ESCs afaik is, we get an rpm signal routed outside, so we can use the VBar Governor without an external brushless phase sensor.

Best,

Eddi

Born to fly ...
forced to work.

Hi

I found my tail motor settings is 333/1520us, but default settings from the factory 500/1500us? Is freq is important to handle tail motor properly?

Hi,

during testing and finding the factory setup, we found that the original tail works best with 500 Hz (which the ESC accepts) and the wide servo pulse 1,500/1,520 µs (the 20 make no difference, it's some historic deviation between legacy radio manufacturers like JR, Futaba).

The smaller the model, the quicker actions and reactions can be, so the higher frequency very likely makes a noticeable difference (I'm not the qualified pilot to tell, to me, both fly ^^).

But on the other hand, that wouldn't, shouldn't burn the motor, else it was a lesser motor than the original M2 motor.

Unless ... you were running bigger tail propellers, too, or multi-bladed (like from drones), which could or could not put more stress on the motor (and also the ESC). In electric drives, there is no inherent power limiting. If let be, they theoretically draw currents up to short circuit current just because they can.

Kind regards

Eddi

Born to fly ...
forced to work.

Eddi E. aus G. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi,
> Unless ... you were running bigger tail
> propellers, too, or multi-bladed (like from
> drones), which could or could not put more stress
> on the motor (and also the ESC). In electric
> drives, there is no inherent power limiting. If
> let be, they theoretically draw currents up to
> short circuit current just because they can.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Eddi

Using original M2 Evo tail motor with original M2 Evo tail prop. No any custom or aftermarket tail prop.

Based on info from RC Groups, seems like ESC firmware problem. OMP has been made several version of firmware to solve issue with overheated / burned tail motor. I think my Logo 200 esc firmware just outdated.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/24/2024 04:12PM by Jock_rst.

Hi again,

well, if this is so ... since it seems to work on ... lots ... of LOGO 200 in stock configuration and I'm sure quite some with modifications, I guess we'll leave it at that until there's a revision due, for the LOGO 200 as it is. To the best of my knowledge, the ESC is not user-updatable after all.

Kind regards

Eddi

Born to fly ...
forced to work.

Eddi E. aus G. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi again,
>
> well, if this is so ... since it seems to work on
> ... lots ... of LOGO 200 in stock configuration
> and I'm sure quite some with modifications, I
> guess we'll leave it at that until there's a
> revision due, for the LOGO 200 as it is. To the
> best of my knowledge, the ESC is not
> user-updatable after all.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Eddi

Yes, no way to update firmware on consumer side and now just purchased new esc. My Logo 200 was purchased 3 years ago - july 2021. Now about 800 flights. For about 3 years: 3 stock M2 motors was overheated / burned, 2 GooSky S2 motors was burned and one M2 Evo motor was burned.

Hi,

hm, quite a (sad) record. I wouldn't say that burned motors didn't occur so far, but the ones I got to inspect almost all had some sort of issue, like, damaged windings, solder drops or other foreign particles inside for example. We burned on or two ourselves, when testing with different ESCs, and when we didn't know yet what voltage they could sustain. But that's neither the ESC's nor the motors fault
Still, the overall quality of what OMP delivers here, in my opinion, is quite amazing!

Please keep us updated anyway.

Kind regards

Eddi

Born to fly ...
forced to work.

Eddi E. aus G. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Still, the overall quality of what OMP delivers
> here, in my opinion, is quite amazing!
>
> Please keep us updated anyway.
>

Ok, waiting for delivery of new esc.

Just recieved brand new M2 Evo esc. Based on the onboard number and version - this is same esc as installed on my heli (

I will try it of course.

Investigated.
The issue with Neo Mini. Original OMP M2 fbl sends DSHOT600 signal by tail channel to the OMP ESC.
Neo Mini can't send DSHOT600 and as result: bad tail authority, overheated and burned motors.

So, here is no solution, only one way - change Neo Mini to other modern fbl or original OMP fbl + esc.

Proof from Jonas / OMP:

https://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=949757



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2024 11:54PM by Jock_rst.