Questions regarding the new Logo 200

Regarding the lipo for this heli, what are the maximum size of the lipo?
In Mikado USA I have seen there is available a combo with a Maniax 650mAh extra battery. It will be this combo available in Europe too?

Eddi E. aus G. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> @ M le_docteur,
> 3° it's not yet set in stone, but afaik 1 flight
> pack and possibly a second set of main blades, a
> second tail rotor and some small parts—the plan
> is to also have spare battery packs available for
> ordering, at the time we start shipping the 200
> itself
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Eddi


Hello,

Receive mine today !!! the 30's tested by Kyle

However I'm a little bit disappointed that stuff in the package discussed above are not present

Kind Regards,

André

You are right André. For the price of this heli, almost 600€, it should include another set of main blades and a tail blade also.
Btw, It should include the whole manual printed instead a quick manual.

Hi guys,

sorry that I was stirring up false hopes, I thought the package contents could be the same as with the OMPs.

About the manual, to be honest, I'm nowadays perfectly happy with a digital copy (did you notice the QR code on the quick start guide?).
I can have it whenever, wherever, and it doesn't clutter up my workspace, or just go into the trash like so many paperwork you get with products these days, preferably in phonebook thickness with umpteen languages in them

I hope the 200 makes up for those shortcomings

Cheers

Eddi

Born to fly ...
forced to work.

Did you really only get the one crate of 160 Eddi?

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Oxy3, G380, L480xx, L550sx, Rave Ballistic
Lynx Heli Team Pilot

Hi,

I'm not sure about the numbers, I did not count. The palette in the picture afaik was the first unpacked.
But we are still setting up, shipping out, and more are inbound, afaik both to us and to Mikado USA finally.

Kind regards

Eddi

Born to fly ...
forced to work.

Eddi,

Pro/Rescue Edition offered to everybody here for this

For the manual, e-manual is not a problem for me.
But the spare parts... Your words have spread outside this community (helifreak for exemple) and should disappoint a lot of people IMHO.

Kind Regards,

André



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/06/2020 03:14PM by le_docteur.

Hi André,

I understand, but if I have been quoted properly

Quote:

Eddi
... and possibly a second set of main blades, a
> second tail rotor and some small parts ...

I left myself a backdoor

Anyway, I can only apologize for being too talkative, next time we keep it like Apple and don't say and don't even leak a word until it's all set in stone

Take care!

Eddi

Born to fly ...
forced to work.

Eddi E. aus G. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I left myself a backdoor

lol you re good :-)

> we keep it like apple

I love apple but please no, don’t be like them.
Just continue to make good products ;-)

Kind Regards,

André



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/06/2020 03:40PM by le_docteur.

My only true regrets is that it is not pro from beginning and we are stuck on some parameters like AC rpm.
Bank 3 is too much for me, Bank 1 too low, Bank is almost good if I change some settings (style/agility).

It's from my point of view too calibrated, and I think for some experienced users, pro mode is mandatory.

Kind Regards,

André

Hi André,

the heli's setup, as it is, tries to accommodate all types of pilots, from mild to wild.

Within a Bank, you can of course adjust the rpm by +/– 500 1/min without much effect to the very specific adjustments, for such a small and reactive bird. The parameters we chose to be adjustable are basically what you need, to tune it then to what you want or what you are used to.
We found that, particularly on such a small bird, and particularly on a bird where the tail performance is always top notch no matter what headspeed you run, the fine tuning apex often ranges only around +/– 2-3 points, and there are dependencies which you wouldn't expect, with all the experience you have. Making changes, you easily get negative effects or the model's performance suffers.

If you leave everything open to change, first thing people do is mess with it, everybody knows better and by that, they may be loosing the performance which is possible with fine tuned parameters, then complain that it's not flying as advertised, in our opinion way superior to any other micro. When then spend the bucks, is the next Q?, although those self-made 'expert' parameter changes didn't make it better but worse.

If you are beyond that level, Pro or Pro+Rescue is for you.

I'm a way to mediocre pilot to push the 200 to it's limits, but if I look at what Kyle, Mirco, Robin or Henrik do with it, with those now default parameters (and they don't crank it all the way up either), I think for an rtf and bnf model, it's quite good already with Express

Kind regards

Eddi

Born to fly ...
forced to work.

Hi Eddi,

I'm am not a hard 3D user too, for my bank1 and bank3 are useless (bank1 is to light, 3 is to hard lol).
I'm somewhere around bank2.

I understand the complexity of parameters, I touch some little things.
I think the most complicated in this logo 200 is the ratio rpm between AC and rotor.
rpm is the only parameters I would change in express, to have something between bank1 and 2.
I would really appreciate if we can only modify this with an explanation.

To be honest with you, I did only two flight actually yesterday when I receive it (1 lipo).
The feeling between the logo 200 and me was not here, I think I need to tweak style/agility/expo on bank 2.
I was also very surprised that there is not so much anti-gravity set up (I put 25 on my oxy4 max and was really impressed by the feeling).
I also managed to make the tail stall lol

I am not here to blast the logo 200, it's far away from that, it is just my own feeling of the thing ;-)
Please don't take it bad.

Have a nice day.

Kind Regards,

André

Hi André,

well, dial down rpm from 4,800 (Bank 2, medium anti gravity) to 4,300 (half the way down to Bank 1 with 3,800) and see how it feels.
Or dial up rpm in Bank 1 (higher anti gravity) from 3,800 to 4,300, and see.
That's both in the +/– 500 rpm range, and should pose no problems.
Then, use agility and style and expo to fine-tune.

With the tail, you have to keep in mind that it has thrust one direction and has to rely on torque the other direction, so there are limitations to be expected, obviously.
At higher rpm, no problem, at lower rpm, you could at least have issues when the tail motor is unloaded and if there is not enough torque, or if there are torque changes.

You can expect the same peformance you probably know from the videos, and you will see hardly any maneuvers left out, or only to one direction, where the tail has almost limitless power, but still you might have to adapt your sensitivity a bit (which imo will also help you flying other models).

—Eddi

Born to fly ...
forced to work.

Thank you Eddi for all your good advices, I really appreciate.
I will continue my customization and try settings to find what is best for me.

But for now, I am stuck with one lipo lol :-( My reseller have some issues with maniax to get my lipo, due to covid-19 I presume.

Kind Regards,

André

Hello,

I have my Logo 200 for about a week now and I have to say she flies really awesome. But as much as I enjoy every second flying it I noticed a few things. In bank 1 the head wobbles pretty bad - no issue for me since I fly on bank 2 which is ideal for me now. No need to change anything at all, It just flies perfectly in my opinion. At maiden I flew on Bank 1 for while - all good, then I switched to bank 2 and then to bank 3 (all in hover) and then when I switched to bank 1 the head started to wobble. Since then it wobbles on bank 1.

Second issue which actually bothers me is that the heli keeps on disconnecting from VBC-t and sometimes even when disconnected it still reacts to my input. My VBC-t is running 1.1.402 version. Any clues what it could be? It never happens with my other helis (normal vbar neo).

Thanks

Jakub

Hello,
I have maiden my logo 200 today. She flies amazing, I have tested idle 1 and 2. To switch from idle 1 to 2 I have landed the heli to be sure there is no problem. I have make some funnels, inverted flight, flips and it flies really smooth. I guess idle 2 is the best for me.
But, when I have changed from idle 2 to 3 on a hover in the air, the heli has loss the tail, turning 180º. I have been able to control it, but the heli was descending and finally it has arrived the ground with one of the landing skids get broken :-(
I don't know why it has loss the tail, switch from an idle to other in hover should not make the heli to loss the tail.
I will try to make the skid from a piece of carbon from my logo 600sx carbon chasis I didn't use anymore because I have installed the double one way. By the way, when will be available spare parts for this heli?

Also, another question regarding the safe function of the vcontrol in the logo 200. I have read in the manual the tail rotor won't begin to start until you put the motor switch to on, but is it the same for the safe switch? I mean, if you forget to quit the safe function before swith the motor to run position, will the tail rotor starts to run with the main rotor stopped?

Hi guys,

I have pointed Kyle Dahl to this thread, he can shed some light on setup questions or when to expect wobbles.

Disconnecting but still being able to control means, the back link is interrupted (telemetry) so the radio does no longer know the VBar is on (but keeps transmitting for safety reasons anyway). This can happen if radio and heli are very close by, and if the antenna orientation is not optimal.
Is this only at power up, for example?

The safety switch overrides the motor logic, but if it's disengaged, the motor logic will be back on (same as no safety switch at all).
So no matter what you do, motor off is mandatory (sounds logic to me and that's why I never felt the safety switch was necessary, for me).

If in doubt, remove all blades (also tail propeller) and try on the bench, to familiarize yourself with what it does, when you do what you do.

Spare parts are inbound, but for the time being, if you can get your hands on OMP M2 parts, that would be an option.
The skids are not the same, though.

Kind regards

Eddi

Born to fly ...
forced to work.

Hello Arag_

I have to ask you to clarify what you said. You said when you switch from Idle 2 to 3. This is to "increase" the rpm. Like this this in increasing the torque which the tail can perfectly control. So it makes no sense for it to spin. In 1000's of tests flights I can almost guarantee it is not a possibility for the tail to spin on increasing the rpm.

Did you mean to say going from Idle 3 to Idle 2 which is "decreasing" rpm? Like this it can happen a spin, especially if you are descending. If you are decreasing RPM, then the torque is going away which makes the model want to yaw right so the tail motor has to slow down. But normally still this is not a problem because there is still some torque from the blades.
But, if the heli is descending, it means you don't have much pitch which makes it want to spin even more to the right, so the tail rotor turns too as low of a rpm as possible, and it is still not enough to keep the model from spinning right. This can cause the model to spin. Also maybe if there is some wind, then it could make the issue worse.

I recommend if you are going from Idle 3 to 2 or 2 to 1, then always be in a stable hover, or if anything, be climbing up slowly.

Kyle

jakubpetrik

Bank 1 works best only indoors, or in really smooth winds conditions. If it is windy, it can bobble.

Also as you said, it worked in bank 1, but then after going to bank 2 or 3, then coming back to 1, sometimes it bobbles. This can be that sometimes when going from bank 2 or 3, to bank 1, sometimes the rpm doesn't immediately come to the preset 3800. It can stay at maybe 3900 or so and take a while, or a couple pitch pumps, to lower down. Normally this isn't an issue, but the model does have certain rpm ranges which there are resonances which cause bobbles. 4900-5200 is one of these ranges so this can happen going from bank 2 or 3 to bank 1.

If you are flying outdoors often and want to unitize the bank 1, then I recommend just adjusting the RPM to 4300. The other parameters will still work fine at this rpm, and then you can have a low rpm which is smoother, But flys better outdoors.

Best regards,

Kyle

le_docteur

Everyone has their own personal taste and style for setup. So it is impossible for us to match exactly to your preferred setup. ;D

We made a range of RPMs and agilities in the banks to try to get across whole spectrum of setups and feelings. With certain adjustable settings, and adjustable rpm so users can tune to their liking.

In my testing, each bank can have the rpm adjusted about +/- 500 rpm without needing to adjust other gains and values etc.

So If bank 1 is too low, raise to 4300. This is more suited for outdoor smooth flying. Then If bank 3 is too high, lower down to 5300. Then you can tune agility, and expo and style to find your feel.

Then if you need more adjustability there is always the pro update which unlocks everything!

Best regards,

Kyle

Hello Eddi and Kyle,

Thank you Kyle to be here !

> Everyone has their own personal taste and style for setup. So it is impossible for us to match exactly to your preferred setup. ;D

That's exactly true and I think this is why I think Mikado should let us more flexibility regarding the rpm.
I'm curious to see how it is setup on the M2.
Just for my curiosity, is there a specific "rpm ratio" between main rotor and tail ?

After a second flight, I felt a little bit more confortable with my logo 200. But with one lipo at home, I cannot fly it as much as I want. Hope that my favorite reseller will have lipos quickly.

Another curious thing is that I really do not feel "antigravity" on the Logo 200 as my oxy4.
And I am very surprised with the stock value (25 on bank 1, xx (i don't remember) on bank2 and 5 on bank 3).
I put 25 on my Oxy4 and it works like a charm, my oxy4 does not fall quick, but on the logo 200, for me it fall quick.
So is that the correct stock value ? What is the risk to increase those value ?
I thought that smaller the heli is, greater are antigravity value, did I miss something ?

Thanks.

André

Kind Regards,

André

Hi André,

Quote:

le_docteur
Just for my curiosity, is there a specific "rpm ratio" between main rotor and tail ?

No, the tail has only rpm control, and it will do whatever it can to maintain direction or rate of rotation.
And here's a particularity, it has that ridiculous power at low rpm as well as at high rpm (which is good), but that means that you have to tweak parameters in a way which you wouldn't expect, e.g. _raise_ the tail rotor gain with higher main rotor rpm or _lower_ it with lower main rotor rpm (totally contrary to a normal tail rotor).

Anti gravity, personal taste. I prefer higher values, so I would set them higher on mine. Kyle prefers the values which went into the setup, and that's perfectly OK with me ... today I even heard a customer say 'wow, great little heli, but I turned off anti-gravity, it's not for me' ...

There are maybe rules of thumb, but the same thing will never be the same thing for everybody

Cheers

Eddi

Born to fly ...
forced to work.

If you don’t plan to fly indoors could we simply copy bank 2 to bank 1 and have an additional bank at a higher RPM?

GScott Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you don’t plan to fly indoors could we simply
> copy bank 2 to bank 1 and have an additional bank
> at a higher RPM?

+1000000

Kind Regards,

André

Hi Kyle,

Glad to see you here.
The problem I was talking about was changing from idle 2 to 3, raising rpm, and the heli spinned 180°.

Arag_

Forgive me but I am a bit confused still. In a normal hover it is really not feasible for the heli to rotate when the torque is increasing. The tail motor can for sure compensate for this. Did it rotate left or right if you recall?

Perhaps, if you were descending as you mentioned then possibly the lack of torque caused the model to spin despite the rpm change? This coupled maybe with some wind which was pushing on the tail? Not sure. Hopefully we can get the parts soon for you. I will discuss with Eddi tomorrow.

Kyle

@GScott

If you have upgraded to PRO level software then this is EXACTLY what I recommend to do! Take the RPM closest to what you want, and copy that to the bank which you wish to change. Then adjust the cyclic / tail setting to your likings. This is the best way to ensure that all of the RPM dependent settings get copied as needed.

However, with the Logo 200 Express software the Bank Copy feature is not accessible.

Best regards,

Kyle

Maybe it was descending a bit, but it was almost in hover.
Wind was very light this day, almost in calm.
I am not sure at all, but I think it turns right.

Kyle,

Does the rescue mode perform well on this machine ?
Because in the idea of upgrading to pro, should take the pro+rescue

Kind Regards,

André

Hi André,

it works very well, I've tried it outside a couple of times. Actually, the vibration levels we monitored were exemplary.
If something's no longer running true, main shaft, spindle shaft etc., after a mishap or so, you'll notice it by the sound and behavior of the model, so I guess you'll not fly and rescue with uncommonly high vibration.

Also, the beginner mode / hovering aid (part of Rescue) can be used very well with the 200, it's very docile, then.
Mind the wind when trying outside, though, too little authority might cause the model to be blown away

Kind regards

Eddi

Born to fly ...
forced to work.