Reducing endpoint travel to even up collective range.

Is it OK to reduce my endpoint on my pitch channel to even up the collective range.

I originally set up the transmitter with the software to have 100% across the board on all sliders but am finding that even though all my servo arms are at 90 degrees, the swash is level and centre stick is 0 degrees I have a slightly uneven collective range.

Reducing the only positive pitch ATV on the transmitter so the software reads 94% instead of 100% seems to do the trick now giving me an even 13 degrees + & -.

Just wondering if this is the way to do it.

Yes, thats fine.

Depending on the configuration there may occur small deviations that can be correctd this way. I prefer the "feel" correction, so if i have the impression that the trave is unequal in flight i adjust it. With this the different efficienties of a heli in normal and upside down flight is included in the adjustment.

so long ... Uli
http://www.vstabi.de

OK thanks.

Sorted.

How about if instead of lowering the high pitch collective travel (as was done in this case), I decide to lower the VBar collective range, and then increase the low pitch collective travel from -100% to -105% to get even +12°/-12° collective? Would this work too? Any detrimental effect from increasing the low pitch collective travel beyond -100%?

We recommend lowering in the TX.

Reason:

The TX signal range will be expected from -115 to +115 from our side. If anyone exceeds this limits the signal value will be dropped in Vbar. So ... we recommend lowering, otherwise we have to explain too much things and take care about them.

At all 105% is ok too ;-)

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

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hi Guys

how about increasing the end point to even up the collective range? I get +12' and -10, with my futaba 8FG I can increase the end point to 110 (from 99) to even it up. will this work? cheers

Surely this can be done with the software on the Level Swashplate page along with adjusting the Swash at Zero, full positive and full negative.

johnsandywhite Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Surely this can be done with the software on the
> Level Swashplate page along with adjusting the
> Swash at Zero, full positive and full negative.

not sure it can be done on the Level Swashplate section, isnt it just to level the swash at center, top & bottom position?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/20/2012 02:07PM by panz.

panz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> johnsandywhite Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Surely this can be done with the software on
> the
> > Level Swashplate page along with adjusting the
> > Swash at Zero, full positive and full negative.
>
> not sure it can be done on the Level Swashplate
> section, isnt it just to level the swash at
> center, top & bottom position?

That's what I thought he wanted to do? By levelling the Swash at all points, he would have the same amount of travel? I must be missing the point?

Ahhh ...

First ... levelling the swash in center can be done on each axis. But it must be set for zero collective there too.
The endpoint levelling (pro, expert at swash levelling) is for cyclic only.

Having unequal throws at the end ... please LOWER the TX travel (ATV) for collective on the side which has too high deflection. After tis raise the collective slider in VBar to get the right value on both sides.

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/21/2012 09:03PM by RV.

Hi RV,

Do you means that if there are -10/+12 for collective. If I want to have +12/-12 degree. By your suggestion (Pro), increase collective in Vbar setting to -12/+14. And lower TX ATV to adjust from +14 to +12?

RV Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ahhh ...
>
> First ... levelling the swash in center can be
> done on each axis. But it must be set for zero
> collective there too.
> The endpoint levelling (pro, expert at swash
> levelling) is for cyclic only.
>
> Having unequal throws at the end ... please LOWER
> the TX travel (ATV) for collective on the side
> which has too high deflection. After tis raise the
> collective slider in VBar to get the right value
> on both sides.

Sorry my mistake, I understand now. It is the amount of travel positive and negative which is uneven. So adjusting the ATV fixes that. Just a senior moment on my behalf.

Hi RV,

When we set center at setup mode to set center of TX. After that if adust ATV, Is baseline will change ?

For example, if TX ATV in ELEV that I adjust to 105% to match Vbar 100%. In flight mode, if I found roll rate in ELEV not enought, could I increase ELEV ATV ? Will it impact the baseline of VBar?

I get collective pitch range +12°/-11° when I set the VStabi Collective tab to "100". According to the VStabi instructions, I should not use more than "100" collective in order to "get useful ranges for our control loops."

If I follow the instructions above on this thread, I would need to increase the VStabi collective past "100" to get pitch range of +13°/-12°, and then decrease the High Pitch Travel on my transmitter to decrease the +13° down to +12°. The issue here is that the VStabi collective would be around "105", which would be outside of the "80-100" VBar useful range for the control loop, at least according to the VStabi instructions.

I opted to just leave the VStabi collective at "100" with corresponding collective pitch of +12°/-11°, and increased the low collective travel on my transmitter to 105% to increase the low collective from -11° to -12°. This seems to work fine, but I do not know if this is optimal.

lliu0130 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi RV,
>
> When we set center at setup mode to set center
> of TX. After that if adust ATV, Is baseline will
> change ?
>
> For example, if TX ATV in ELEV that I adjust
> to 105% to match Vbar 100%. In flight mode, if I
> found roll rate in ELEV not enought, could I
> increase ELEV ATV ? Will it impact the baseline of
> VBar?

I asked this question when I wanted more cyclics on my TDR before I updated to PRO. The max ATV is 115% - 110 recommended. I put mine to 105 and it was good enough.

Is the other option to reduce the high side via the pitch curves?

RV Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ahhh ...
>
> First ... levelling the swash in center can be
> done on each axis. But it must be set for zero
> collective there too.
> The endpoint levelling (pro, expert at swash
> levelling) is for cyclic only.
>
> Having unequal throws at the end ... please LOWER
> the TX travel (ATV) for collective on the side
> which has too high deflection. After tis raise the
> collective slider in VBar to get the right value
> on both sides.


This is done in the transmitter, after we have completed the transmitter calibration tab3 in software?
I am assuming that we do not touch the tab3 settings at all now.

Quote:

This is done in the transmitter, after we have completed the transmitter calibration tab3 in software?

Yes. This is the only way to do this right. Lowering won't be a problem, too much (over 115%) can cause signal out of range log entries ;-)

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

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Hi RV,

When we lower TX ATV. But it will not match Vbar 100% in TX calibration. Will it impact VBar operation ? Like lower ELEV/ AILE cyclic pitch angle will accurate ?

Quote:

When we lower TX ATV. But it will not match Vbar 100% in TX calibration. Will it impact VBar operation ?

No, it has no effects. Collective will pass beside all loops direct to the servo output mixer in the Vbar - so no effect to the cyclic control loops.

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

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ulrich Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, thats fine.
>
> Depending on the configuration there may occur
> small deviations that can be correctd this way. I
> prefer the "feel" correction, so if i have the
> impression that the trave is unequal in flight i
> adjust it. With this the different efficienties of
> a heli in normal and upside down flight is
> included in the adjustment.


hey ulrich,

so your suggestion is:

1) initially, not to bother if the +/- travel are not the same;
2) fly the heli and adjust the collective range in a way that makes you happy during the flight?

when you say ''eficiencies'', what do you mean please? that helis are not simetrical by nature and sometimes a few differences between positive/negative or front/back or left/right will occurr?

thanks.

Correct. Start with the +-100% adjustment at the setup, then do small correction in flight. This shall avoid, that the throw is very far from 100% in the setup.

Usually a heli does climb a bit faster if upside down, so you may want to adjust the negative collective slightly lower than the positive. But thats all about how it feels, and what you are used to.

so long ... Uli
http://www.vstabi.de

RV Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We recommend lowering in the TX.
>
> Reason:
>
> The TX signal range will be expected from -115 to
> +115 from our side. If anyone exceeds this limits
> the signal value will be dropped in Vbar. So ...
> we recommend lowering, otherwise we have to
> explain too much things and take care about them.
>
> At all 105% is ok too ;-)

I just wanted to make sure that I was understanding this correctly - I can raise the the negative to 105 in a DX8 without any issues? I had roughly +14.3/-13.1, so I lowered the low endpoint to 105, and decreased the high to 99, with these endpoint changes it balanced me out to roughly +/- 13.5. And my vbar setting was 90 for pitch.
Thanks,
Chris



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/06/2014 01:41AM by cwall64.

Yep, this won't be a problem.

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

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Is there a limit to how low you can lower your end points to get correct collective range?

There is no limit - but i think about values lower than 60 or more than 120 for the usual 12deg collective might be worth thinking about essential basics of geometry and send the designer back to its workshop ;-(

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

Für Posts und Antworten bitte einen PC und eine richtige Taststaur benutzen sowie alle Fragen vollständig abarbeiten. Nehmt Euch Zeit, beantwortet Rückfragen in Ruhe und vollständig.
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Ok great, on trex 300 at 100% it’s throwing out about 16 degreees of pitch.
I like to fly with about 10.5 so endpoints have ended up at about 65.

Thanks

Rob