Logo 550sx tail wag

I have a constant tail wag on my 550sxi have changed servo's no change tail is silky smooth i am using external gov on vbar control with a kontronic esc. I have seriously tried everything suggested on forums and no change. Programmed esc through vbar control several times and selected 4 beeps. Please help been trying to sort it for 4 weeks.

Please ... use some line feeds to get this text more readable.
And - we have a rule - one user, one heli, one thread. NO threadnapping.
I have split this post from the others.

Add current setup file and also a info about which VBar is it as well as the rest of used components.

How much wag (mm) is it and which frequency?
Do changes on the gain have a effect?

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

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Please i have tried everything i can after years of heli flying. I have a constant tail wag, tail is silky smooth i have tried different servo's futaba savox align. I am using kontronic esc and vbar control on a neo the wag is similar to a hunting scenario but just speeds up when gain increased and slows when decreased. As i said tail standard and free from glitches. Esc programmed through vbar control using external gov and 4 beeps from esc. Heli is brand new so no parts worn had grip balls sanded gently thrust bearings greased. I am now at the stage of putting in the bin i am totaly at a loss. Any input would be apreciated.

Merged both threads. Please one thread only.

Can you please give more hints about headspeed etc.?
How much is the wag exactly, how often?
Please add the setup file (ziped) here.

Also - important - check the thrust bearing inner diameters. They must have 2 small and 2 large inner holes.

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

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Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

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My apolagies reiner i am new to this forum in fact any forum. Sorry if i have caused offence. I am using a vbar neo with vbar control, Tail servo is futaba bls 251 cyclic servo,s futaba bls451 motor scorpion hk3 425 1100kv esc is kontronik jive. Standard maingear with 14t pinion. The wag is about 8 to 10 cm both ways from center and slows with less gain and speeds up with more. I have checked the bearings and 2 have an x on inner and no x on outer. Everything else is as standard. Headspeeds are mode 1 1700 mode 2 1900 and mode 3 2100. The tail servo runs 760us 333mhz. I hope this is ok and again sorry for any inconveniance.

Thank you.
Shane.

Hello Shane,

so this soungs all ok here - but with the "x":

Can you please disassemble the thrust bearings and wiggel this rings on the shaft to figure out you have "Really" 2 larger and 2 smaller ones?

reason ... i had a customer where 3 had the same size ...

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

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Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

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Thanks reiner,
I went to check the thrust bearings as you suggested one blade grip came off easily,

However the other side was stuck when i got it off the outer thrust washer was tight to fit the shaft.

The shaft looks bell shaped and the outer thrust washer will not fit.

It is wider at the screw end, the other side looks fine.

Could this be the problem do you think?.

I am going to order another and try it, see if that solves the problem.

Thrust washers are correct.

Thanks.
Shane.

Hmm ... would have probably the same effect ... we'll see - let us know please!

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

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Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

Für Posts und Antworten bitte einen PC und eine richtige Taststaur benutzen sowie alle Fragen vollständig abarbeiten. Nehmt Euch Zeit, beantwortet Rückfragen in Ruhe und vollständig.
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Hi rainer.

Firstly sorry again for using the forum wrongly.

Secondly thank you for your insight into my heli as without your help i would not have found the problem.

The problem was with part number 04630.

The area where the thrust bearings sit, one side the shaft measures 4mm at both the screw end and also at the other end.
But on the other side it measures 4.5mm at the screw end which was causing the outer thrust bearing to be stiff, and this was stopping the bearings from moving.

The part was new with the kit and may have been faulty however i bought another and it has stopped the wag
Thanks again.
Shane.

Hello Shane,

thanks for reply, well done, glad you found it!

But in this case we would send you a new one of course. Maybe you might fill a rma on vstabi.info/rma and we'll see what happens.

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

Für Posts und Antworten bitte einen PC und eine richtige Taststaur benutzen sowie alle Fragen vollständig abarbeiten. Nehmt Euch Zeit, beantwortet Rückfragen in Ruhe und vollständig.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
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Hi Shane,

we would be happy to have the not true-to-size part back, to inform the manufacturer. Happens very (very!) rarely that such parts are not OK but it would certainly be good to inform the QC people there.

If you would want to open a service case as Rainer suggested, you could send it in in a simple letter, and we would either replace it or give a credit to your customer account with us.

Kind regards

Eddi

Born to fly ...
forced to work.

Hi eddi.

I would be happy to return the part to you.

I have already changed out the part so no need to send me another as i always buy 2 when replacing parts then i have a spare.

Thank you for the offer, but reiners help was invaluable and i am very grateful for his help.

That was priceless for me and this only shows what a great investment it was going for mikado helicopters and mikado electronics.

Thanks to reiner again and thanks for your kind offer.

Shane.

Hi,

I just finish to build my 550SX, maiden today and all are great except a constant tail wag. I have some pilots with other 550 and 600 Logo with tail wag or not (constant or not) and i reed some post of it.

I think find my problem, but sure at this time some informations are not write on manual.

On tail kit there are 4 screws M3X8, 2 screw are all threaded, 2 not and on my build i put one of each on my tail hub, the washer included in my kit doesn't change it (watch pictures).

I test it tomorrow, but for this time i mount on my hub the same screw and all threaded.

Sorry for my poor English

Hi,

same issue with the 2 same screw with and out washer.

With out washer : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZtdtUcIkEY&feature=youtu.be

With washer : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lu95sEFMGxk&feature=youtu.be

I fly on tail with a HBL 669 new, as the logo 550, Neo and VBC.

I think the problem is hub, i have 12.33 mm and 12.14 on the other side. Trust bearing, inside one is very hard to put on.

My question now is how to ask Mikado for a new hub and trust bearing ?

Thx

Cyril

Ok - please create a RMA for "other Parts". Therefore log into vstabi.info and then start at http://www.vstabi.info/rma (User section of the Website left bottom menue)

regards (EN) / Gruss (DE)

Rainer Vetter

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Posting and answering - please use a PC and a standard keyboard. Answer all questions fully, take the needed time, don't forget probably requested attachments.

Für Posts und Antworten bitte einen PC und eine richtige Taststaur benutzen sowie alle Fragen vollständig abarbeiten. Nehmt Euch Zeit, beantwortet Rückfragen in Ruhe und vollständig.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Für Einzelkommunikation bitte ausschließlich Email verwenden! - PN, Messenger, Chat usw. werden nicht bearbeitet.
For single user communication please send a email only! PM, Messenger, Chat etc. won't be read.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2018 11:12AM by RV.

Hi,

Thx, i do that.

Just for information, a friend who have a 600 lend me his hub i just put my tail blades, tail wag faded away.

Hi again,

please mind that you need to install the washers. The reason is, without, the thread for the screw would be like half a thread to short in one arm of the hub, so you can not put the one screw in all the way, and you see the difference you measure.
This creates a slight imbalance, which in turn causes the wag.

With the washers (between screw head and hub, defining the position of the thrust bearing), all should be well.

The faster wag looks more like a thrust bearing issue to me, either bearings not installed in the right way, or ball cage distorted, blocking the balls or binding with the rings.

Did you replace only the hub, or the whole tail rotor assembly?

But let's see what we find.

Kind regards

Eddi

Born to fly ...
forced to work.

Hello,

as i write i choose the 2 screws all threaded and i try to fly with washers or not, same issue.

I test with the whole tail rotor assembly, but he don't want to sell it to me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yK1O940TU7I&feature=youtu.be

After put washers on hub it's better, i have pratictly the same length, but now the 2 small trust bearing don't go in.

I think screw thread is one problem and washers stop it but trust bearing is an other problem. As i reed on HF and after talking with somebody who buy a 600 Logo 2017, he have the same issue, Mikado write him and send washers, he resolve it without washers and put TB of an other builder.

At this time i have no response of my RMA after 5 days... i think buy the same TB and fly with my new Logo 550.

Cyril



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2018 02:35AM by recovery.

Hi Cyril,

contrary to our recommendation in the RMA, to send back the whole tail rotor assembly, I would now suspect only the thrust bearings.

This is since you tell now that the distance with the washers on is the same (which is good and intended), but that the thrust bearings seem to bind.

We can send a new set for a test, if you did not already procure some elsewhere.
Kindly let me know.

Kind regards

Eddi

Born to fly ...
forced to work.

Hi Eddi,

now i don't know, diameter of the end of the hub is 4.03 maybe i put screw too tight or the diameter of the little TB is too small...

I think i need to change this two parts, maybe hub it's my fault.
I want to buy a red color part for my VBC (i broke the grey plastic part of my USB, is it possible to buy one ?), i buy a hub too, you can put on my order a TB for test ?

Cyril



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2018 09:38PM by recovery.

Hi Cyril,

we can do that. Can you please send a pic of the broken part? I'm not exactly sure what you mean.

TB's are bulk items, although we do take samples, we do not check every single one, so if e.g. two rings with the same diameter would be in a bag, it could go unnoticed. But we have rather few complaints here (although you find them, on the net), so we assume the vast majority is OK.
But if you have issues, please ask us, and we will help—that's not only meant for you but for everybody reading here.

Kind regards

Eddi

Born to fly ...
forced to work.

Hi Eddi,

it's this part :

for my tail problem, i will order a new hub and a new TB with my color VBC part, a see what's appends.

Cyril

Hi Cyril,

OK, please select advance payment when you order, and leave a comment so I can add the rubber part and adjust the invoice.
Then I will send it again, and you can pay by the means of payment you prefer.

Best regards

Eddi

Born to fly ...
forced to work.

Hi Eddi,

I make it

Cyril

recovery Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Eddi,
>
> I make it
>
> Cyril


Hi,

i ordered and selected advance payment, what's append now ?

Cyril

Hi,

I'm afraid I can only see shop logins in your history, but no order. The last was a software update from 04-03-2018.

Kind regards

Eddi

Born to fly ...
forced to work.

Hi,

i make it an other time, this time i have a confirmation, not last, maybe a mistake on first order.

Cyril

Hello Cyril,

thank you, this time it worked, new invoice is en route via e-mail.

Kind regards

Eddi

Born to fly ...
forced to work.

Hello Eddi,

Thx for tail and VBC parts, i just pay through PayPal to info...

Cyril